Arizona is prepared to Secede !

Dennis

Staff Emeritus
All,

Some states seem to know who’s in charge!

Salute to some real Americans in Arizona who are trying to put the brakes on the runaway federal train of abuses.

(quote - www.sierratimes.com - bold added for stress)

AZ: Secession Resolution Survives Committee Vote
Sierra Times Exclusive
By J.J. Johnson - Sierra Times Reporter
February 4, 2000

PHOENIX – Legislation proposed to remove Arizona from the Union in
the event Marshall Law(sic) is declared passed the federal government &
State’s rights committee by a 3 to 2 vote. But Rep. Karen Johnson (R-Mesa)
says it’s an idea that’s been around for years.

In an interview with the Sierra Times, Johnson described the Bill, HCR 2034,
as a mere “insurance policy.” And because of her valiant effort, The
committee that she chairs has been labeled by some of her extremist
colleagues in the legislature as the “black helicopter committee”.

A three-year veteran to the Arizona Statehouse, Karen Johnson says the bill
is merely a resolution, but feels it is badly needed. “If the federal
government declare martial law or attempts to confiscate guns, the states
shouldn’t have to put up with that”, said Johnson.

Johnson, like other legislators was very concerned about being labeled by
other media outlets for her viewpoints.

She considers herself a “Constitutionalist”.

She was also the sponsor of a bill calling for limiting the
power of federal land grabbing (national park re-designations) in Arizona.
HCM 2003 also passed out of her committee by a 4-2 margin.

Johnson said she was asked by several Maricopa County residents to look
into preventing the federal government from asserting too much power not
authorized by the federal and state Constitutions. To Johnson, HCR 2034 is
a watered down, limited version of the “Ultimatum Resolution”, written and
promoted by Joseph Stump, well known author and historian.

Joseph Stump Testified for the committee, while Johnson’s left-wing
colleagues thought mental health in Arizona was more important according
to the Arizona Republic.

They made no comment as to their own mental health, and there were no
objections after Stump’s testimony.

Johnson said their were at least two other bills introduced in this legislature
that dealt with The federal executive action around the Grand Canyon. This
recent bill introduction was done in response to recent actions and proposals
by the Clinton Administration.

To many people, fears Marshall Law(sic) and firearm confiscation are mere
‘conspiracy theories‘. But After watching the government preparation for
Y2K, and Clinton’s recent State of the Union Speech, “these fears have
become real possibilities”, said Johnson during the telephone interview.

Johnson also stated that other legislators in other states are considering
taking similar steps. Utah was mentioned as one example. Still, it would
take 35 states to make to same resolution to make any impact.

Johnson also made it clear that the action of possible secession should only
take place if the federal government suspends or violates the Constitution
without approval from the state. “There may be times when the nation may
be at war, and such steps may need to be taken. But the states should have
a backup plan if necessary.”

The support for the legislation will depend solely on the response from the
Arizona residents in the desire to see this bill become law. Johnson expects
an uphill battle, and will need all the support she can get.

She has also filed suit against the federal government, joined with other
representatives from other states, and private ranchers. Earlier this month,
President Clinton declared three new national monuments during a trip to
the Grand Canyon, threatening the property and livelihood of ranchers in
the region.

The lawsuit concerns the Grand Canyon-Parashant National
Monument, which covers more than 1 million acres of land, roughly the
same amount as Grand Canyon National Park.
Seven state representatives are among the plaintiffs in the suit. Those are
Reps. Joe Hart, Barbara Blewster, Debra Brimhall, Jean McGrath, Jake Flake,
Bill McGibbons and Karen Johnson.

© Sierra Times – All rights reserved.
(unquote)

Our Founding Fathers and our ancestors would rejoice to see there are SOME people left to vote FOR what is right rather than to vote for a lesser wrong.

Nobody can lable Karen Johnson a sheep or a coward.

And only Democrats and her fellow Republicans could call her a traitor.

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited February 04, 2000).]
 

BigG

New member
Yippee-i-a, Yippee-i-o! She sho' 'nuff has a pair! :D

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I raised my hand to eye level, like pointing a finger, and fired. Wild Bill Hickok
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts... it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG

It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself. Tom Jefferson
When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up. BigG
 

Jack 99

New member
Good for her. Problem is, how do you draw that line of when the Fed gubmint has gone "too far." Martial law is one thing, but when the end result of thousands of unelected bureaucrats and unConstitution Exec Orders have the same effect as Martial law, is that any different? What then?

The Feds or the UN will never invade main street America. They'll just slowly choke off our liberties one by one while simultaneously "entitling" everybody. About 2 generations from now they'll get thier way unless we do something about it.
 

Long Path

New member
[wet blanket]
Please note that this is only a proposed resolution; it's only passed committee. What effect does it have? Cero. Nada. Butkiss. Jack. Gimme a real-live, honest-to-goodness passed resolution or bill, and then we're talking! I love it, but I know how this thing's gonna get buried, now that it's out of committee.

[/wet blanket]

M.G.


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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt
 

mineralman

New member
That's fairly close to retarded. First off, is there a difference between this article's Marshall Law, and the more widely recognized Martial Law? Second, if martial law were declared, then I'm fairly sure that all the reserves and national guard would be activated. the streets would be awash in armed troops. With the federal government's established dislike for states leaving the union, (see the Civil War) this notion which is slightly preposterous to begin with, would fall flat on it's face, in the event of real US Army and Marines hanging out in the state house. Yeah right. Besides, who's to say that if martial law were declared, that it would be for the paranoid seeming reason of grabbing guns, or otherwise abrogatint our rights? Might it not be for an emergency? Like an attack on america? or an epidemic of smallpox, etc? Wouldn't a state automatically seceding be a truly unneccesary pain in the ass for whoever's trying to fix it? THe federal government isn't evil, just wrong. In fact, a lot of por gun ownership groups like militias and such are more evil, even if they are right on an issue that's dear to our hearts.

~~~Mineralman
 

TAZ

New member
This is pretty good news, but I'm with Long Path on this one. If it becomes Law then it may be something to slap the faces of fed beurocRATS. Realistically it wont mean much. For AZ to secede, the fed have to declare Martial Law or begin gun confiscations. Additionally, 34 other states have to agree to secede. The chances of that happening are pretty low, if not impossible. And what Mineralman said has some truth to it also. With the Marines, Army, NG and Reserves crawling around the chances of a bloodless secession happening are nill (see Civil War).

On the other hand Governments are not just wrong, but evil by their very nature. They seek to control which is in direct contrast with the idea of freedom. History has porven this over and over. Militas/civil organizations can and often have been evil, but their effectiveness is VERY limited because they are not in control of the whole country they are trying to effect. If you tallied up the total killed/maimed... by militials around the world, you would not even come close to the damage caused by governments. This is exactly why the Framers set up the USA as they did. With a central governement that had little power, so that it could only do small amounts of damage before being ousted in some form or fashion. The problem is that we are currently dying the death of a thousand paper cuts. This is why people with agendas will never have to invade the US. They will destroy the ideals of freedom and individuality slowly and patiently.

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If stupidity hurt, liberals would be walking around in agony.
 

LongDuck

New member
The argument has been made that this is not LAW yet, however, realize also that this goes to a voter referrendum in November and you can bet that many of us will turn out to make sure this makes it into LAW.

Arizona can set the stage for the other states to follow - and besides, who else is brave enough to stand for the cause and *do* something about it???

I sent an e-mail to Karen Johnson to thank her for her efforts and ensure her that we'll back here at the voting polls. This is a good turn for the better,
 

Monkeyleg

New member
While what many of you are saying about this being a moot issue may be true, the symbolism of it can't be lost on those in Washington. Go fer it, Ms Johnson!

Dick
 

Dennis

Staff Emeritus
Grr. First of all, in my draft, the title was supposed to read
"Arizona is prepared to Secede?"
Blew it when I typed it. Sorry.

Second of all, if Arizona tried to secede, "some" other states would join Arizona.

Thirdly, if the feds started to send troops to put down Arizona, the troops could have problems on more than one front!

Even Klinton is smart enough not to use force. And Arizona is smart enough to realize that a small, land-locked country must depend upon the good will of it's neighbors to survive.

The message this sends is what turns me on - as y'all noted.

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 

CassidyGT

New member
The real point is that even if this does not get passed into law, it is incredible and wonderful that it was even brought up. Can you imagine something like this even seriously being considered by a Committee at the State level at all 10 years ago? Even if this fails int he General Assembly, I count it as a wonderful beginning and even a victory of sorts. We've come a ways and we're headed in the right direction in some places.

Things like this were happening in the 1830's. If you read the editorials of the 1830's and 1840's from the south - they sound an awful lot like what is happening today. Look for much more serious action if Gore gets elected.
 

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
Not to throw any blankets on the fray & I've thought many times that the Rocky Mtn Region (with a token other state or so included to provide for access to shipping ports, etc.) blowing off the rest of y'all would be a pretty good deal (sorry for y'all in the "other" states) ....

But, who will run the "government of the future?" That same states' legislature or will "the patriots" arise & "set things to right?"

With the disputes over various even in such a "like-minded" forum as TFL, I could easily foresee mini revolutions within the newly created sovreign state.

Some form of government is neccessary (this coming from a "rational anarchist" at that)
otherwise, one would have true anarchy which would very quickly turn to chaos (most likley).

No flames - only a thought ....
 

George Hill

Staff Alumnus
Yup - moving to Arizona...
Contacted relatives, let them know were coming...

If this happens.
Dang that would be cool as heck!

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I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!
 

Ezeckial

New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAZ:
This is pretty good news, but I'm with Long Path on this one. If it becomes Law then it may be something to slap the faces of fed beurocRATS. Realistically it wont mean much. For AZ to secede, the fed have to declare Martial Law or begin gun confiscations. Additionally, 34 other states have to agree to secede. The chances of that happening are pretty low, if not impossible. [/quote]


Actually, with 31 states already having CCW laws of one sort or another, Bill of Sucession may be feasible.
And the symbolic message to the federales may be compelling. All of you have noted Klinton's retreat on several of his initiatives. Even the news media (print, at least) is becoming more balanced in their views (this is in the MD/PA region).

I am sure the elections of '94 weigh heavily on the Democrats, as well it should.

I would like to see sucession movements in every state. I don't want to see a civil war (freedom and democracy would not survive and our so-called "friends" (China, Russia) wouldn't set still...neither would the U.N.).


[This message has been edited by Ezeckial (edited February 05, 2000).]
 

ernest2

New member
Some one mentioned that the media is becoming slightly more ballanced in reporting on the gun debate which devides this nation.

The media is only doing this to make the media and the socialist gun grabbing liberals look a little more "reasonable and
appealing" to mid stream voters just before
election.

This is not indicating a perminent
change in media attitude swinging toward the
pro-gun side of the issue. Instead, this is
a top coat to a media white wash job, to
try to gloss over the rotten treatment that
the media and democraps have been handing out to the american public for the past 7 years.

They are merly trying to make us feel better about them so as to steal our votes, the selfish damned sob's.

They are ,first and formost, out only for their own selfish power and dont give a rat's ass about the american people.

Vote all the democraps out of office
and elect Libritarians where ever you can.

Elect Republicrats where you cant elect Libritarians.

The Democraps and the Republicraps
have proved, by their actions and beyond any reasonable doubt , that they are both carved
out of the same hunk of steaming ****!

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In 2000, we must become
politically active
in support of gun rights
or we WILL LOSE the right
& the freedom.

NO FATE BUT WHAT WE MAKE!!!

Every year,over 2 million Americans use firearms
not to take live but to preserve life,....limb & family
.Gun Control Democrats
would prefer that they are all disarmed
and helpless and die,instead.

ernest2, Conn. CAN opp. "Do What You Can"!
http://thematrix.acmecity.com/digital/237/cansite/can.html
 

Cheese Man

New member
I'm sorry, but all the anti's have to do is read most of these posts, to confirm to the rest of the people, that we, in the shooting sports, are a collective of complete, and utter lunatics!

Secession from the Union? Excuse me?

What more must we do to prove that we're totally over the edge?

Well, you guys can mount your horses and find some windmills to tilt at, I'll try to find something more postitive to do.

Like take a new person shooting?

I don't know, maybe ranting and foaming at the mouth is better?

In that case rant on!

Cheese Man :rolleyes:
 

The Rock

New member
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice"

The Rock says that this is positive. The Rock wants to know if you're awake. The Rock doesn't mean to belittle little positive things, like introducing the shooting sports to a newbie. However, The Rock feels that we are, now, right now, in the midst of a civil war. Not a shooting war, yet, but decidely a war.

The Rock
 

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
Rock /on! With the continual erosion of our rights & those who actually give one rat's butt, it shouldn't be too long at all. Not hoping for one, mind you.

There's another Waco/Ruby Ridge-type happenin' right around the corner. Only a coupla things keeping it from happening; somewhat of a restraint by the Feds 'cause they're already smarting from a couple other mishaps & we are the most law-abiding peoples around.

Something'll cook off/someone will take a stand or the guvmint'll make a mistake & there she goes.

We've already got the no-knock nonsense happening & any of them could go ballistic in a heart-beat.

BTW, e-mails are great for doing a quick vent but you get better impact with a phone call & follow up with that hard copy. If you care enough to send the very best ...
 

TOMBERGSTR

New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jack 99:
Martial law is one thing, but when the end result of thousands of unelected bureaucrats and unConstitution Exec Orders have the same effect as Martial law, is that any different? What then?

[/B][/quote]

I believe the average person would be shocked if they knew how much they are subjected to because of regulations and NOT laws . Only congress can make laws . BUT !!! So many agencies can make rules and regulations and these people are not even elected . They are appointed . We can't throw them out since we didn't even put them there in the first place . They got a political plum and went crazy .



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TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER
 

TOMBERGSTR

New member
Originally posted by ernest2:
Some one mentioned that the media is becoming slightly more ballanced in reporting on the gun debate which devides this nation.


It's really hard for the media to report on 5 gangbangers shooting up the wrong house but still killing small children and then compare them to decent citizens .5 guys with jobs and families at the range are not in the same group as 5 guys with bandanas and gang tatoos killing anyone that wears the " wrong colors " . I wonder how many " anti-gunners " are circulating petitions in East L.A. .

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TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER
 
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