Arizona Alert, Ben Avery under the gun

C

C.R.Sam

New member
> Firearms Action Committee - Tucson
> P.O. Box 27321
> Tucson, Arizona 85726
> http://www.azfact.org
>
> August 5, 2002
>
> From the desk of Ken Rineer, President
>
> IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUESTED:
>
> The sale of Ben Avery to Del Webb
>
> The Arizona Game & Fish Department is considering an offer from Del Webb
to
> sell off the Ben Avery Range at $100K per acre, or at least portions of
it.
>
> To avoid massive crowds of Phoenix-area shooters spoiling their plans,
Game
> & Fish has scheduled the meeting in Flagstaff.
>
> The meeting will be held at the Woodlands Radisson Hotel, 1175 West Route
> 66, Flagstaff, AZ at 9am on Friday August 9th.
>
> There's a large agenda and they may want to go into executive session when
> they discuss the economic development of Ben Avery Range._ (Which in my
view
> would be a violation of the Open Meeting Law)
>
> What do you need to do?
>
> Be there yourself if you can or at the very least, contact every shooter &
> hunter you know in the Flagstaff area so they can go and show up in mass.
>
> Contact for the Arizona Department of Game and Fish is as follows:
>
> GAME AND FISH, DEPT. OF
> 2221 W. Greenway Road
> Phoenix, Arizona 85023-4399
>
> Information ....................................................(602)
> 942-3000
>
> FAX Number (Director's Office) ..................(602) 789-3299
>
> Duane L. Shroufe, Director............................(602) 789-3278
> Steve Ferrell, Agency Ombudsman ...............(602) 789-3276
>
> Region I
> 2878 E. White Mountain Blvd.
> Pinetop, Arizona 85935 ................................(928) 367-4281
>
> Region II
> 3500 S. Lake Mary Rd.
> Flagstaff, Arizona 86001-9342.....................(928) 774-5045
>
> Region III
> 5325 N. Stockton Hill Rd.
> Kingman, Arizona 86401-5499 ....................(928) 692-7700
>
> Region IV
> 9140 E. County 10 1/2 St.
> Yuma, Arizona 85365-3596 .........................(928) 342-0091
>
> Region V
> 555 N. Greasewood
> Tucson, Arizona 85745-3612 .......................(520) 628-5376
>
> Region VI
> 7200 E. University
> Mesa, Arizona 85207-6502 ..........................(480) 981-9400
> Human Resources Office ...............................(602) 789-3326
> Rules Office...................................................(602)
> 789-3289
>
 
W

Waterdog

Moderator
Somebody is getting their palms greased, the SOBs!
Game and Fish needs to get bombarded with phone, fax, and e-mail.

Waterdog
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
Couple hours to Flag for me.....gonna give it a try.

Meanwhile, phone, phax, n snail.

Lot of good matches and practice there. All firearms.
And one of the few 1,000 yd ranges left.

Sam
 
G

GunsnRovers

New member
though I'm in LA

I visit my folks in Pheonix regularly and shoot at Ben Avery every time I go.

I will fax in my opinion of this proposal ASAP.

This is really disheartening. Ben Avery is a great range and makes our Angeles Range here in LA pale in comparison.

Found this on a Arizona Re/Max real estate web site, http://www.az-homes4u.com/valleyofthesun.shtml
North Gateway Village
On the way out of town toward Flagstaff, eight planned developments and the headquarters of major national enterprises surround the pristine desert of the Sonoran Mountain Preserve, at least that's what the city has planned for a region that could very well become the Scottsdale of the future. For the moment, though, other than a few old timers' homesteads, a federal prison and the Ben Avery Shooting Range, Phoenix's northern fringe is pretty much pure, roadless desert.
Click to expand...

Looking on line, I found the minutes of a December 7/8, 2001 Fish & Game meeting where they discussed a new facility in the Buckeye Hills area that would "comliment" and not compete/replace Ben Avery. The Del Webb group even proposed funding $500k for it's development.

Here are those minutes:
http://www.gf.state.az.us/frames/dir_off/minutes12_07_01.pdf

In those meeting notes, the position of Fish & Game was stated as.
From a long-term perspective, the Department saw the need for the Valley to be anchored with four fairly large-sized shotting facilities. (Ben Avery in the northwest; this proposed site in the southwest;Usery Pass in the northeast and a facilty was still needed inthe southeast.)
Click to expand...

I guess we will still find out where they stand.

Please keep us updated.

Jeff
 
Last edited:
A

AZYoungGun

New member
I don't get out much, since I can't get my father to take me, but my Scout master has taken me to Ben Avery quite a few times, and it is an enjoyable range. I'm not familiar with Del Webb. Who is he? He anti-gun, or an environmentalist? I'll see what I can do. I know my scoutmaster and his son will probably pitch in. Thanks! :(

Nick R.
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
Nick.....appreciate all the help we can get. Fax, phone or best yet, get a crowd at the Flagstaff meeting.

Del Web was a very large developement corporation They are noted for covering the land with houses. Now they are a part of a giant construction and developement outfit.

Ben Avery range has been good for training in ALL shooting sports and is host to many major matches. Black powder, small bore, large bore, rifle pistle etc etc. Many world class shooters have competed there. Many who have trained there have gone on to become world class competitors.

It truly is a major part of our western shooting heritage and still serves a very usefull purpose.

Sam
 
A

AZYoungGun

New member
Sam, thanks for the reply. I will do what I can. I have noticed all of the housing that has popped up around there. The last time I went out with my scoutmaster and his son, he (my scoutmaster) said that, before we knew it, somebody in that housing developement would start to complain that they didn't like to hear "those guys shoot those noisy guns" all day long. More than one way to skin a cat, and I guess this "Webb" company knows it. Thanks, and I'll do my best to spread the word.

Nick R.
 
C

Cheapo

New member
Del Webb is now the mega-corporation behind all those Sun City spoiled rich cranky whiny retiree communities in various parts of the country. The Sun City phenomenon pretty much started in the Phoenix area--northwest.

They are famous for developing land use/nuisance law from Sun City building way out there next to a pig farm, then getting the farm closed down as an unreasonable infringement on the real property rights of the new neighbors.

There is NO DEFENSE in stating that the new guys "came to the nuisance".

Based on the F&G's PURPOSES, there should NEVER be a sale of even one sliver of land for any use other than "open space", without a strong binding agreement for the DEVELOPER to pay for all infrastructure improvements required to keep each and every bullet fired in any direction from landing on their newly-acquired property. Otherwise, you're just paving the road to shutdown.
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
Bump. Friday is nigh.
Ben Avery may be an Arizona range....
But it is used by shooters from all over our country and the rest of the world.

Sam
 
R

RickD

Moderator
TO: AZ Daily Sun
ATTN: Betsy Bruner
RE: Game & Fish Deception Over Shooting Range

Betsy,

If you put a reporter on this story, it's now gotten much juicier.

I called to talk to the Director of AZ Game & Fish and let them know
I'd be seeing them on Friday morning at the shooting range meeting,
and the woman who answered the phone began serving up a canned
"explanation".

"Those minutes were not approved," she gasped. [Uh, do you mean
these minutes: http://www.flagstaffoutdoors.net/BASF/BASF.html ?]

Does that mean that when a Senator says in a congressional hearing
that he'd like to kill all white people, as long as the minutes
aren't approved, it didn't happen?

I explained, "Whether or not your minutes were approved is rather
immaterial to the fact that what was discussed was in fact discussed.
Any use of Ben Avery Shooting Range other than as a shooting range is
unacceptable."

"Can I get your fax number," she responded, "so I can send you our
press release to show you that there's no problem here?"

I gave it to her, and she sent it. Here is the scanned image of the
fax:
http://keepandbeararms.com/images/AZGFD_BenAvery08072002.jpg

Between the lines below is the brief text, verbatim -- followed by my
initial short analysis...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ARIZONA GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT
Aug. 7, 2002

PRESS RELEASE

Media Contacts: Rory Aikens, (602) 789-3214.
raikens@gf.state.az.us, or Joe Janisch, (602) 789-3215.

Ben Avery Rumors Are Flying: The Truth Is...

Rumors are flying around about the Ben Avery Shooting Range on the
northern edge of Phoenix.

“I can put the rumors to rest. No, we have no offers and we are not
considering selling the Ben Avery Shootinng Facility. Period,” said
Arizona Game and Fish Director Duane Shroufe.

Shroufe explained that the Game and Fish Commission is at the
embryonic stage of exploring ways to enhance Ben Avery, possibly
through a commercial buffer zone along the Carefree Highway Corridor,
to protect the shooting range from future development on nearby
lands.

“We can’t operate in a vacuum. Right now, we don’t know what the
possibilities might be for that corridor. However, we would like to
collect sufficient infornation from a variety of sources so we can
eventually make a decision that is correct today, yet ensures that
future generations also have a quality shooting facility,” said
Commissioner Hays Gilstrap of Phoenix.

The commission is considering issuing a request for proposal (RFP)
for 130 acres along that Carefree Highway corridor, with the strict
caveat that any proposal “must be compatible” with the shooting
range. The draft RFP states that, “Ideally, proposals should utilize
the economic development as a sound buffer for the shooting range.”

The request for proposal is being considered during the Game and Fish
Commission’s meeting Friday at the Radisson Woodlands Hotel, 1175 W.
Route 66, Flagstaff, during the statewide shooting range update. The
meeting starts at 9 a.m., and the “Statewide Shooting Range Update”
is not time certain on the lengthy agenda.

-30-

‘‘Managing Today For Wildlife Tomorrow”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First, in their meeting, they TALKED ABOUT POSSIBLE CLOSURE OF THE
RANGE AS A SOLUTION -- they even gave a flimsy caveat that the range
wouldn't close until an alternative range was open for business.
(However many driving miles away that might be, of course.)

Next, in their meeting, they absolutely did say that Del Webb has
offered $500K for the development of a shooting range, too. Call me
stupid, but $500,000 kinda sounds like an offer over here.

In other words, the above "press release" from Game & Fish is not
only dishonest, it suggests that pressure from gunowners, shooters
and other interested parties may have led them to take cover.

But that doesn't mean they won't go into "Executive Session," like
they did in June, to further strategize getting their hands on some
or all of the expected $140,000,000 that land could be worth in the
next few years. (In their June meeting, they specifically stated the
number of acres under Ben Avery Shooting Facility's care -- 1,400
acres -- and specifically stated that each acre could be worth
$100,000 in the next 5 to 10 years. Maybe Del Webb is suddenly an
altruistic shooting range financier -- that must be it,
because Game & Fish says they'd had no offers, and you know they'd
never lie to the people, right?)

Surely the Sun isn't going to pass up on this story now... are they?

--AS

Angel Shamaya
Founder/Executive Director
http://www.KeepAndBearArms.com
Flagstaff, Arizona
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
Thank you Rick.
I hope that most who go to Flag register and get speaker cards.

And if they decide to go into closed executive session.....
Some will raise point of order. Tis illegal in Arizona to do that.

Sam
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
Update with exchange and good numbers to work with.

-- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Rineer" <rineer@QuixNet.net>
To: "AZRKBA" <azrkba@asu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:17 PM
Subject: FACT UPDATE: More on Ben Avery, they seem to be retreating


> Firearms Action Committee - Tucson
> P.O. Box 27321
> Tucson, Arizona 85726
>
> August 7, 2002
>
> From the desk of Ken Rineer
>
> Ben Avery Responses
>
>
>
> Below you will find responses from the "other side" attempting to set the
> record straight._ However, all they did is muddy the waters.
>
> If you look at the minutes to the June meeting, there is evidence that
there
> IS a deal in the works.
>
> Right now the Department and the Commission is in retreat, but the battle
is
> not over.
>
> I suggest you follow the links Bill Gow provided and read the minutes for
> yourself.
>
> There is also a link to a good page on the History of Ben Avery.
>
> Keep up the great work!_ Keep the pressure on._ And remember:
>
> NO ROP's__ NO LEASES___ NO SALE
>
>
> From Bill Gow:
>
> This is in reply to a forwarded FACT Update I received this morning.
There's
> a lot of speculation going around about BASF and I felt that I should
> "update" people on some "facts".
> >From the desk of Ken Rineer, President
> Hmm, what about the monies received each year?
> The money received is Federal - Aid to Wildlife Restoration, funded
through
> Pitman-Robertson. This money is used to offset the cost of running Ben
> Avery, it is not accumulated. I understand it's about $70,000-$80,000 a
> year. If BASF disappears, so does the money.
> The highest best use?_ Sell all of Ben Avery._ Why?_ In 5-10 years,
> Phoenix will have grown to the borders of the range.
> I understand, that at this point, The Commission is looking at their
> options. Nothing is planned.
> I heard from one of the Commissioners, just yesterday, that in the event
> BASF were to be sold, a replacement range would be built beforehand. Where
> this money would come from, I have no idea. If they don't have the money
to
> build ranges now, where would the money for a new BASF come from? Another
of
> my thoughts is, how do they define a "replacement"? BASF wasn't built by
AZ
> G&F, it was built by volunteers. Volunteers who have spent somewhere in
the
> neighborhood of 18,000 man hours a year on this facility over the last 40
> years! It's one thing to acquire land and build access roads, it's another
> altogether to build a shooting facility. By my estimates, at today's labor
> rates the Volunteers have between $8,500,000 and $15,000,000 sweat equity
> tied up in that place. This does not include their contributions of
> materials.
>
> My estimation of Arizona Game & Fish's equity is under $1,000,000 in cash,
> labor and materials. The above mentioned revenue shortfall is paid for
from
> federal funds that would not be available otherwise. At any rate, G&F's
> contribution is still our money!
>
> If in the event the northern borders of Phoenix do encroach upon BASF, the
> city can condemn the range and force it's closure and sale. HOWEVER!!!
they
> still have to pay for it, they can't just take it away. According to what
> I've read in the minutes of the Commission's June 21-22 meeting the
property
> may be worth as much as $100,000 an acre in about 5 years. There are 1650
> acres there. If we include another 5 years of the Volunteers sweat equity,
I
> think we can reasonably see a valuation of somewhere in the $180,000,000
> range.
>
> As you can see, The Commission is playing in the big leagues now. Do they
> have the knowledge and support to make these decisions? I don't know, I
> doubt it. Is anyone going to step up to the plate and help out? I hope so.
I
> don't think this is a good time to practice "activism", I think it's a
good
> time for anyone with good ideas to make their thoughts known. I encourage
> people to participate and voice their thoughts at Commission Meetings. I
do
> not encourage divisiveness.
>
> Be a Volunteer, not a pain in the ass!
>
> Here's some information, not speculation:
> http://www.flagstaffoutdoors.net/BASF/BASF.html
>
> Bill Gow / Flagstaff
>
> +++++++++++++
>
>
> From the Az. Game and Fish Director's office:
>
>
>
> Aug. 7, 2002
>
>
> PRESS RELEASE
> Media Contacts: Rory Aikens, (602) 789-3214,
> raikens@gf.state.az.us, or Joe Janisch, (602) 789-3215.
>
> Ben Avery Rumors Are Flying:
> The Truth Is. . .
>
>____ Rumors are flying around about the Ben Avery Shooting Range on the
> northern edge of Phoenix.
>
>____ "I can put the rumors to rest. No, we have no offers and we are not
> considering selling the Ben Avery Shooting Facility. Period," said Arizona
> Game and Fish Director Duane Shroufe.
>
>____ Shroufe explained that the Game and Fish Commission is at the
embryonic
> stage of exploring ways to enhance Ben Avery, possibly through a
commercial
> buffer zone along the Carefree Highway Corridor, to protect the shooting
> range from future development on nearby lands.
>
>____ "We can't operate in a vacuum. Right now, we don't know what the
> possibilities might be for that corridor. However, we would like to
collect
> sufficient information from a variety of sources so we can eventually make
a
> decision that is correct today, yet ensures that future generations also
> have a quality shooting facility," said Commissioner Hays Gilstrap of
> Phoenix.
>
>____ The commission is considering issuing a request for proposal (ROP) for
> 130 acres along that Carefree Highway corridor, with the strict caveat
that
> any proposal "must be compatible" with the shooting range. The draft ROP
> states that, "Ideally, proposals should utilize the economic development
as
> a sound buffer for the shooting range."
>
>____ The request for proposal is being considered during the Game and Fish
> Commission's meeting Friday at the Radisson Woodlands Hotel, 1175 W. Route
> 66, Flagstaff, during the statewide shooting range update. The meeting
> starts at 8 a.m., and the "Statewide Shooting Range Update" is not time
> certain on the lengthy agenda.
>
>
 
R

RickD

Moderator
www.keepandbeararms.com will have a report up sometime tomorrow.

Second hand, I heard that the Game and Fish dept rented a ballroom at the hotel in Flagstaff and posted "No Weapons Allowed ARS 13-3102(A)(10)" but provided not storaged. Given that such is illegal, I don't know how many attendees complied with the illegal order.

Once inside, many, many dozens of gunnies showed up only to find several armed government types. Three or so AzG&F uniformed and armed rangers along with a couple Flagstaff PD and a plainclothed cop.

What a bunch of wimpy ppuussiieess.

AzGF denied all, of course (and refused to answer some questions). Perhaps most telling is that the AGF guys said that it was inevitable that Ben Avery would be eaten up, ten years, twenty years in the future.

Rick
Reporting 2nd-hand rumors.
 
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