Are government policy makers really that stupid?

Byron Quick

Staff In Memoriam
For over two decades now I've watched the developing policies of all levels of government with dismay. Here's a short list:
1)evading the letter and spirit of the Fourth Amendment,i.e, no-knock searches, dynamic entry for relatively minor cause, ongoing attempts at warrantless searches.

2) evading the prohibition on double jeopardy with semantic games and piling on multiple charges for one criminal act.

3) the proliferation of "gun control" laws

4) confiscation of property with only a nod to due process of law.

Two of the things that particularly concern me are: 1)Can't the policy makers see what this is doing to the average citizen's perception of government? 2) LEO's who apparently cheerfully crawl on the bandwagon to break down doors and confiscate property.
(If anyone is aware of LEO's who have refused to follow these tactics that rape both the letter and the spririt of the Constitution, please let me know, I need all the hope I can get)

I'll give a recent example of the effects of the government's policies. An example that shocked me to my toenails. My mother is as middle of the road American as apple pie. Flag and country. Always has voted in every election. Sometimes for Republicans and sometimes for Democrats. She has always followed the issues and always been a centrist politically. Not liberal...not conservative. My radical political beliefs have been one of the few banes of her existence. Well, a few days ago we were talking about the Internet, this forum, and a couple of others I post to. She told me that she was worried that the government would "come get me." I asked her to clarify this. She is afraid that the government will retaliate against my exercising my freedom of speech here by expressing my political views. She is afraid the government will use Ruby Ridge or Waco style tactics against me for nothing but that. I was flabbergasted that this woman with her flag and country background held such a view. If my mother, with her background, holds such beliefs regarding the government...so do millions of other Americans in the "center." This is the result of their policies. What really nags at me is: is this the result they wanted?
 

Rob Pincus

New member
Let's face it, people no longer act in accordance with our government out of respect. They do so out of fear. Fear of punishment, fear of reprisal and/or fear of disrupting their status-quo-ho-hum-sheeple existance.



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-Essayons
 
Sartacus-
In my darker moments, I recognize that if someone has a "list" out there, we are *all* on it. If so, so be it. When the time comes that rational and peaceful criticism of the nation's direction and politicians results in persecution, I guess we'll have something to show for our slavery.

"I don't care what those men wrote 200 years ago." Governor L. Douglas Wilder, Virginia, quoted in USA Today, 29 Jan 93

Rich
 

ATM

New member
Doug Wilder was the Governor of Virginia in the late 1980's early 1990's. I believe he was the first black governor, I know he was in Virginia.

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Freedom is not Free
 

Jeff Thomas

New member
Becoming a target for fascists does not seem to be the worst end, IMHO. To die out of stupidity, to die for an immoral cause, to die initiating violence against another, and to die out of sheer accident are much worse ends, I believe.

Are TFL members on a list? Probably someone's - if not the 'government', then groups like HCI, etc. I don't believe this is paranoia, just logic. (For someone working for BATF, this might seem like a logical extension of the job - to keep an eye on 'gun nuts' ;) ) I decided a long time ago that I couldn't live with keeping my head down and my mouth shut (as many here would testify, I suspect ;) ). I want my children to know what I believe; for them to feel free to debate philosophy with me so we can both learn; to study history, philosophy, science and economics to better my understanding; and, to discuss issues with my fellow citizens so we don't misunderstand each other. All I ask in return is honest debate, and that is often impossible for too many others to offer in daily life. Besides, most of 'em don't even give these subjects a second thought.

TFL offers that forum for honest debate. Whether this type of discussion is a risk or not, I refuse to live my life as though we are in the U.S.S.R. we learned about as children - where neighbors and family members supposedly ratted on people to the state. TFL is too valuable to miss.

I note now the mention of 'police incident' occasionally on the traffic news, believe it or not. As in "avoid 7th Street - there is a 'police incident' at Maryland". I think we are still a long ways from widespread fascist tactics, and the incidents at Waco and Ruby Ridge became infamous partly because they were examples of relatively uncommon incompetence or terrorism.

But, until federal LEO's and others talked, our first knowledge of actual widespread deployment of such tactics would likely be a surprising number of such 'traffic problems'. ;)

I'm still optimistic there are enough decent Americans, especially LEO's, that we won't see that happen in our lifetimes.

And yes, government bureaucrats are that stupid - they have trouble thinking past what it will take to spend this year's budget. And, I'm afraid there are some LEO's who buy into the rationalizations for Gestapo tactics, and who are swayed by an easy seizure of assets.
 

John/az2

New member
It's late, but I hope this response is coherant.

I have thought long and hard about the apparent stupidity of our legislators. They are far too consistant. And it does not seem to matter who is in office, the general trend is downward. This leads me to think that there is a plan and a pattern.

I'm sure that not all of them knowingly follow it, but through the influence of those who do know, they can be swayed by degrees. Even one degree off of true north will place you somewhere you had not planned on being. And not only that, but the longer the travel along that error, the greater the displacement.

Which makes the saying, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" all that more true.

John/az

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"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."


[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited March 02, 1999).]
 

theheat

New member
To answer the question, Are government policy makers really that stupid?, in one word:

<center><font size=10>YES</font size></center>

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Oh yes I like my Tupperware
VOTE YES April 6th on Prop. B, for a safer Missouri



[This message has been edited by theheat (edited March 02, 1999).]
 

Trevor

New member
I agree the answer is yes, but I also believe people get the government they deserve. We have no one to blame but ourselves for what we see around us. This is to say that things can be turned around if we care to do so. Don't let the politicians and bureaucrats get away with it: Participate, advise, persuade.
 
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