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AR15 Triggers: Geissele
- Thread starter Nathan
- Start date
Nathan said:Can someone explain to me the benefits of Geissele triggers over their competition? They are pretty speedy...Are they better than the Larue,...
I have several of both, and a few others as well. One advantage of Geissele is that it is a two stage trigger. If you like that sort of thing, it's not a small advantage. There is a universe of cassette type single stage triggers with which I have no experience; they may be excellent, but I don't like single stage trggers.
I'll start with the worst thing about Geissele, their pricing. They are about double the other options I'll note below. Geissele are reputed to be more durable than Rock River or Delton both because of the way they are cut and the steel from which they are made. They also have a benefit for me - easy adjustment of the second stage.
Larue fans will point out that Larue triggers are cut from a sheet of tool steel rather than cast from it. I don't see that as an advantage if a cast Geissele doesn't have durability problems. People who like single stage triggers may also like the Larue product. It has a weak first stage and a relatively stout second stage. The disconnector is riveted, so adjustment of the second stage is not convenient. The trigger blade is flat. This drove me to use it with the very tip of my index finger; over the course of a summer, I developed a callous at the tip of that finger. (that doesn't sound very tough as I read it back.) The Larue is $87.
I like Rock River two stage triggers, but I don't use them in blowback actions simply because I once heard a story of one breaking. The disconnector is also pinned in these, so second stage adjustment is not convenient. I like the Rock River Varmint, which has a lighter second stage. It can be found for the same price as a Larue.
I have purchased a trigger second hand that I've seen advertised as a "FM" at Brownells, as their own trigger at Palmetto State and was identified as a DSG trigger. I don't know if it is the same thing as a Ruger, but it looks like it.
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...petition-trigger-nickel-boron-prod113316.aspx
https://dsgarms.com/kt-dsg-4202-0012-dsg-4203-0001
Out of the box, the second stage is too heavy for me, but access to the disconnector spring is easy. It's smooth and feels a lot like a Geissele G2S in operation. The trigger face is smooth and has no sharp edges like the Larue. I know nothing about it's durability or construction.
Hope that helps.
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GeorgeandSugar
New member
I don’t have experience with that trigger. However, I have used Rise Armament (3.5 lbs) drop in triggers in my builds. I’m happy with them. Their smooth and no slop that I can tell. Better than a factory trigger.
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Nathan said:Why is 2 stage better than single stage?
A two stage trigger plays a trick on your brain and index finger.
Let's say a trigger is 4.5 pounds total. If the first stage is 2.5 pounds, it takes that much weight to pull the trigger through the movement that brings your finger to the second stage, which then takes two pounds to trip.
However, your brain sort of zeroes out that first stage when you get to the second stage. Since you are adding only two pounds to drop the hammer, it gets interpreted as a two pound trigger.
How safe is a two pound single stage trigger in an AR?
As to what is better only you will know, much like whether chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla.
A two stage trigger plays a trick on your brain and index finger.
Let's say a trigger is 4.5 pounds total. If the first stage is 2.5 pounds, it takes that much weight to pull the trigger through the movement that brings your finger to the second stage, which then takes two pounds to trip.
However, your brain sort of zeroes out that first stage when you get to the second stage. Since you are adding only two pounds to drop the hammer, it gets interpreted as a two pound trigger.
Hmmm. How does it work when trying to shoot 2-3 shots rapidly? Is it fast, or do you find this to be slower than a single stage?
Not sure. I assume you are suggesting it will bump fire?How safe is a two pound single stage trigger in an AR?
Nathan said:How does it work when trying to shoot 2-3 shots rapidly? Is it fast, or do you find this to be slower than a single stage?
I've never felt myself slowed by a trigger in an AR, but that may say more about me than anything else. I came to riflery from bolt actions, and you might describe me as low speed/high drag.
Geissele does make a 3-gun trigger that is set up mechanically like a two stage but in which the second stage weight doesn't engage on take up. Geissele do warn about doubling on that if the trigger is pulled slowly.
My sense is that 3-gun shooters generally prefer single stage triggers.
Nathan said:I assume you are suggesting it will bump fire?How safe is a two pound single stage trigger in an AR?
Not sure.
No, but if the light weight of a single stage trigger is achieved with a scant engagement of the sear, the opportunity for inadvertent fire seems higher.
The two stage trigger has the safety advantage of a long first stage with generous travel before the second stage engages.
I have a Geissele G2S in which that second stage is one pound. I've an Armalite with a 5.5 pound trigger, 4.5 pounds in an incredibly long first stage, and a bit less than a pound for the second stage.
CarJunkieLS1
New member
A Larue MBT is 95% of what the Geiselle triggers are. I have 5 Geiselle and 1 Larue. I'll buy Larue for less than half the money from now on.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Nathan said:Hmmm. How does it work when trying to shoot 2-3 shots rapidly? Is it fast, or do you find this to be slower than a single stage?
Using the Geiselle SSA-E my splits are in the 0.19-0.22 range. I don’t have any single stage AR triggers so I can’t compare to those. I do have a Rock River 2-stage on my parts AR. I rarely shoot it and almost never with a shot timer so I can’t really give a valid comparison; but entirely subjective, it feels a tiny bit slower.
The two issues I’m aware of with the Rock River is that with wear it fails to a sloppy single stage (and the amount of wear varies with how well the part was case-hardened originally) and the disconnector on my era of RRA trigger is held to the trigger with its own short pin. The pin has enough room to walk out and leave the disconnector disconnected which stops the rifle very effectively. I know some people buy a longer pin that doesn’t have room to walk and replace the original. Not sure if any of these updates from 16 years past have made it into the current product line as I haven’t bought an RRA trigger since then.
stangbangr
New member
I have a few SSA-E’s and a couple SSA’s. I paid no more than $180 each. They go on sale around the holidays every year. I like the SSA on a “user” rifle because of the full power hammer spring which is why the military likes them.
B. Roberts said:The two issues I’m aware of with the Rock River is that with wear it fails to a sloppy single stage ...
I modified a Delton to replicate this failure when I over did it reducing the length of the second stage. I like it, but with the wrong technique, it can bump fire.
I wonder whether a failed Rock River is the inspiration for the Geissele S3G.
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Always wait for a Geissele to be on sale. There are sales frequently.
Geissele makes a variety of 2 stage triggers, some have very short reset's... making them super fast shooting.
Geissele's a rock solid from a construction stand point, one of the reasons they are expensive.
I had a RRA go soft on me...plenty of rounds on it, but...
The LaRue is a heck of a deal... I don't like the trigger bow's non-radiused edges though. Just a personal thing.
Geissele makes a variety of 2 stage triggers, some have very short reset's... making them super fast shooting.
Geissele's a rock solid from a construction stand point, one of the reasons they are expensive.
I had a RRA go soft on me...plenty of rounds on it, but...
The LaRue is a heck of a deal... I don't like the trigger bow's non-radiused edges though. Just a personal thing.
precision_shooter
New member
They got popular because when they came out, not too many companies made good triggers. I prefer the Rock River triggers myself, mainly due to cost. But I’ve never tried a Giessele trigger either. The RRA 2-stage triggers just feel good to me.
Well, my 2-cents is based on actual usage and/or what I've seen.
I had RRA NM triggers and got rid of them for Geissele SSAs and SSA-Es, and on three other ARs I installed LT's MBT-2 triggers.
One RRA started bump-firing intermittently and the other just went completely t.u. toward the end of a high rd-count tactical course. Done. Gone. While not total junk, the RRA NM triggers just can't compete with Geissele's units - either in terms of durability or the sheer superiority of the let-off (pull/break).
I know other former RRA users who switched to Geisseles or LaRues for the same reasons.
As to LaRue's MBT-2 unit, I decided to try one when LT put them on sale at one point (then about $150 less than an SSA), and found the let-off to be about equivalent to an SSA, though not as good as the SSA-E.
Later I bought two more MBT-2s and put one in my general 'beater' AR that's also my 'Yote sniper. That one I promptly took to a Precision Rifle course where we shot about 500-rds and there were no problems whatsoever. Since then, it's fired another 1100 or so without issue.
I had RRA NM triggers and got rid of them for Geissele SSAs and SSA-Es, and on three other ARs I installed LT's MBT-2 triggers.
One RRA started bump-firing intermittently and the other just went completely t.u. toward the end of a high rd-count tactical course. Done. Gone. While not total junk, the RRA NM triggers just can't compete with Geissele's units - either in terms of durability or the sheer superiority of the let-off (pull/break).
I know other former RRA users who switched to Geisseles or LaRues for the same reasons.
As to LaRue's MBT-2 unit, I decided to try one when LT put them on sale at one point (then about $150 less than an SSA), and found the let-off to be about equivalent to an SSA, though not as good as the SSA-E.
Later I bought two more MBT-2s and put one in my general 'beater' AR that's also my 'Yote sniper. That one I promptly took to a Precision Rifle course where we shot about 500-rds and there were no problems whatsoever. Since then, it's fired another 1100 or so without issue.
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Rangerrich99
New member
I have three Geissele triggers, all two-stagers, for varmint hunting. Bought my first one about ten years ago I think, on sale of course, and upgraded a couple times since.
I don't have anything bad to say about them; they all have functioned flawlessly. I've probably run a total of 8,000+, 5,000, and 3,000+ through each gun with these triggers and never had an issue. One of them has been used for training classes with round counts around 400-500 per class without any issues.
I do know that Geissele also makes single stage triggers if that's your thing. I never bought one though.
I recently bought an ALG trigger (same company, slightly less finishing, so less $$) single stage for my HD/training carbine and it also works perfectly through 2,000 rds now. The only reason I'm looking at another trigger group is I like the idea of cassette types. Just a lot easier to install/uninstall.
I don't have anything bad to say about them; they all have functioned flawlessly. I've probably run a total of 8,000+, 5,000, and 3,000+ through each gun with these triggers and never had an issue. One of them has been used for training classes with round counts around 400-500 per class without any issues.
I do know that Geissele also makes single stage triggers if that's your thing. I never bought one though.
I recently bought an ALG trigger (same company, slightly less finishing, so less $$) single stage for my HD/training carbine and it also works perfectly through 2,000 rds now. The only reason I'm looking at another trigger group is I like the idea of cassette types. Just a lot easier to install/uninstall.
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