AR10 vs. FAL
- Thread starter Futo Inu
- Start date
Nightcrawler
New member
AR-10
PROS:
Inherently accurate design. Swappable upper receivers. Easy to mount optics on, especially with flat top upper. Excellent M16 type ergonomics. Easy to take apart.
CONS:
Expensive. $1300 and up. Preban magazines are also very expensive and are getting hard to find. Uses Stoner direct gas system, necessitating more frequent and more throrough cleaning, right into the heart of the bolt. Parts are available only from one manufacturer.
FAL
PROS:
Quality FALs can be had for less than $1K. Very reliable, Browning designed adjustable gas system. Cheap preban magazines. Easily scoped with DSA Scope mount. Plenty of accessories, furniture options, and whathaveyou available from too many sources to name. Very easy to disassemble and clean.
CONS:
Sights aren't as good as AR-10. THe front post is a bit wide and the rear sight is graduated in hundreds of meters for ball ammunition. Ergonomics may not agree with you, as the rifle doesn't fit everybody.
PROS:
Inherently accurate design. Swappable upper receivers. Easy to mount optics on, especially with flat top upper. Excellent M16 type ergonomics. Easy to take apart.
CONS:
Expensive. $1300 and up. Preban magazines are also very expensive and are getting hard to find. Uses Stoner direct gas system, necessitating more frequent and more throrough cleaning, right into the heart of the bolt. Parts are available only from one manufacturer.
FAL
PROS:
Quality FALs can be had for less than $1K. Very reliable, Browning designed adjustable gas system. Cheap preban magazines. Easily scoped with DSA Scope mount. Plenty of accessories, furniture options, and whathaveyou available from too many sources to name. Very easy to disassemble and clean.
CONS:
Sights aren't as good as AR-10. THe front post is a bit wide and the rear sight is graduated in hundreds of meters for ball ammunition. Ergonomics may not agree with you, as the rifle doesn't fit everybody.
To add to Nightcrawlers post:
AR-10 Magazines are very expensive, over $100 each IIRC.
FAL Magazines are less than $15 for NIW mags if you buy a ten pack. $6 each for good solid used mags.
AR-10 Fixed gas system, what you have is what you have.
FAL Adjustable gas system, if it is getting dirty you can turn it up. Heavy loads can be turned down to minimize wear and tear on the gun. Light loads can be used with highest gas settings.
If you want a sub-MOA gun you should look toward the AR-10, it also gets the vote for cool factor.
The FAL can be quite accurate for a MBR, but a true MOA FAL is not a common gun, and sub-MOA is almost unheard of. You will end up with more in a FAL to get sub-MOA than with an AR-10 IMO.
If you want a good solid shooter in a MBR the FAL is a great choice. If you are an accuracy nut the AR would be better.
AR-10 Magazines are very expensive, over $100 each IIRC.
FAL Magazines are less than $15 for NIW mags if you buy a ten pack. $6 each for good solid used mags.
AR-10 Fixed gas system, what you have is what you have.
FAL Adjustable gas system, if it is getting dirty you can turn it up. Heavy loads can be turned down to minimize wear and tear on the gun. Light loads can be used with highest gas settings.
If you want a sub-MOA gun you should look toward the AR-10, it also gets the vote for cool factor.
The FAL can be quite accurate for a MBR, but a true MOA FAL is not a common gun, and sub-MOA is almost unheard of. You will end up with more in a FAL to get sub-MOA than with an AR-10 IMO.
If you want a good solid shooter in a MBR the FAL is a great choice. If you are an accuracy nut the AR would be better.
The AR10s can be found a little more cheaply as the EA-10s ($999 retail, about $850-900 at a nice dealer), and you don't give up too much, so that's always an option to consider. (you can buy the SS or chrome lined upper later)
Pros for the AR10:
It's a big AR15 -- It's accurate. If you can maintain one, you can maintain the other. You can go from a run-and-gun carbine to a 24" target rifle in under a minute if you have the upper handy. Optics are eay to mount, and you don't have to worry about losing zero when you clean the gun. If your armorer can work on one, he can work on the other. Some parts are similar enough to interchange. Great iron sights if you prefer to go that way.
Cons for the AR10:
It's a big AR15 -- If you consider the AR15 to be a flawed design, then the AR10 is flawed too (though the extra impulse from the .308 helps things). Also, just because the parts are similar doesn't mean all of them interchange. The AR10-specific parts are more expensive across the board, and there's only one or two outlets for the parts, depending on the part (Knight's or ArmaLite). Mags are tres expensive.
Pros for the FAL:
Easy to maintain. Quality parts are available semi-readily. Lower quality parts are available readily. Reliable. Some of the scope mounts make mouting easy and they hold zero pretty well. Cheap mags. Not as fussy about cheao ammo as an AR10 in some people's experience. (but not in mine... my AR10 and FAL will eat the same diet without problems, and dislike the same brands... FWIW) Adjustable gas system adds more theoretical reliabity (again.... this is not my experience, but enough people repeat it, so I guess it's true) There is nothing you can do to really hurt the gun... if the bolt locks up, you can kick the hell out of the charging handle, and it will come free... you may hurt the plastic knob, but the gun will be fine... I would not do that with an AR10.
Cons for the FAL:
Irons are so-so (though they beat the hell out of the irons on any AK or other buckhorn sight). You've got to be a little more vigilant with knowing what outfit originally put it together (though now that ASA and Hesse have AR10s on the market... you gotta think about those too). Accuracy is just ok. Some of the scope mounts may seem to interfere a little with cleaning (or at least getting a good look at everything) and can be a pain to remove, even if they keep zero.
The big fact will be what your intended use of the gun is. If it's for protection, then the FAL. If it's just to horse around at the range, rhen the FAL. If it's to hunt pigs, then the FAL. If you're wanting to do more serious target shooting, then the AR10. If you want to hunt deer, then the AR10. If you want to compete, then the AR10.
Again, IME, except for being cheap to buy new parts and magazines for, there's not a lot that my FAL will do that my AR10 won't, and my AR10's a more accurate rifle. My expereince may be atypical.
Pros for the AR10:
It's a big AR15 -- It's accurate. If you can maintain one, you can maintain the other. You can go from a run-and-gun carbine to a 24" target rifle in under a minute if you have the upper handy. Optics are eay to mount, and you don't have to worry about losing zero when you clean the gun. If your armorer can work on one, he can work on the other. Some parts are similar enough to interchange. Great iron sights if you prefer to go that way.
Cons for the AR10:
It's a big AR15 -- If you consider the AR15 to be a flawed design, then the AR10 is flawed too (though the extra impulse from the .308 helps things). Also, just because the parts are similar doesn't mean all of them interchange. The AR10-specific parts are more expensive across the board, and there's only one or two outlets for the parts, depending on the part (Knight's or ArmaLite). Mags are tres expensive.
Pros for the FAL:
Easy to maintain. Quality parts are available semi-readily. Lower quality parts are available readily. Reliable. Some of the scope mounts make mouting easy and they hold zero pretty well. Cheap mags. Not as fussy about cheao ammo as an AR10 in some people's experience. (but not in mine... my AR10 and FAL will eat the same diet without problems, and dislike the same brands... FWIW) Adjustable gas system adds more theoretical reliabity (again.... this is not my experience, but enough people repeat it, so I guess it's true) There is nothing you can do to really hurt the gun... if the bolt locks up, you can kick the hell out of the charging handle, and it will come free... you may hurt the plastic knob, but the gun will be fine... I would not do that with an AR10.
Cons for the FAL:
Irons are so-so (though they beat the hell out of the irons on any AK or other buckhorn sight). You've got to be a little more vigilant with knowing what outfit originally put it together (though now that ASA and Hesse have AR10s on the market... you gotta think about those too). Accuracy is just ok. Some of the scope mounts may seem to interfere a little with cleaning (or at least getting a good look at everything) and can be a pain to remove, even if they keep zero.
The big fact will be what your intended use of the gun is. If it's for protection, then the FAL. If it's just to horse around at the range, rhen the FAL. If it's to hunt pigs, then the FAL. If you're wanting to do more serious target shooting, then the AR10. If you want to hunt deer, then the AR10. If you want to compete, then the AR10.
Again, IME, except for being cheap to buy new parts and magazines for, there's not a lot that my FAL will do that my AR10 won't, and my AR10's a more accurate rifle. My expereince may be atypical.
My FAL has been less reliable than my AR10. Regarding the gas system, yes you can adjust it. If you have it adjusted too low, then the case can jam on ejection between the bolt and dust cover. I have had to kick the handle at times. Once the handle itself jammed and broke. You can break a FAL
I've also had a FAL mag base cover come off, dumping the magazine's contents on the ground. As noted previously, the sights on the FAL are not great and the trigger is not good either. I'm not a fan of the push-in-and-rotate magazine system used by the FAL (and M14, and AK, etc.). I find it more fumble prone than the ARs push-straight-in system.
The main problem that I have with the FAL is that it just doesn't seem to fit me. The receiver is quite long, so that even though I don't have short arms (32" sleeve length), the forward handguard is way, way out there. It just doesn't work for me when shooting off hand.
The AR10 is not perfect. I've had some problems with magazines not seating properly (though that may be due to a since-recalled magazine catch). It is also a relatively big, heavy gun. Much easier to scope. Excellent triggers are available from the factory.
Of the two, I prefer the AR10 (though I'd probably take my M1A over the AR10 -- it just seems to fit me better than either the AR10 or FAL). Mags are getting pricey, though. Fortunately, I picked up half a dozen M14 mags for it before they got really expensive.
Both are fine rifles.
M1911
Magazine
When I purchased my AR10tnc, I also purchased 20 magazine conversion kits at the costs of the 30 dollars per kit. I then went to the local gun show and bought 20 M1a magazines. I bought the cheapest ones I could find. From one table I bought 10 magazines of 25 dollars. These magazines were dented and unusable in an M1a but could be used for the conversion kits. I found 10 more that were in about the same conditions for a good price. Total cost per 20 round complete AR10 magazine was 42 dollars. Still costly but not near 100 dollars. (note to self buy more converstion kits and resell at higher price)
Reliabilty
I have a friend with a DSA (FAL) that thought the AR10 was not reliable, so while at the range we had a little competition. We used the dirtiest old ammunition we could find. We also used to some of the best reloads I could make. The end result after 250 rounds and no cleaning,
AR10 - one failure to feed
DSA – one failure to extract
Accuracy
We used Federal 168 Match ammunition, 3 round group.
AR10 - .52 @ 100 yards
DSA – 1.68 @ 100 yards
Cost of the Rifles
AR10 target Navy Carbine 1775.00
DSA (FAL) 1450.00
The real difference in cost is the fact that my AR10 is the target model. SS barrel, 2 stage trigger, and free floated.
End result. They both did great considering the fact we dropped all the ammunition in the dirt before we started. As for myself, I think I will stay with the AR10tnc. Some people say that AR10 is not a combat type rifle, I would disagree. Also during the Gulf War and my time in the Marines, I just got confortable with the AR. I will always keep my pre/ban AR-15's but the AR-10 just gives that extra kick.
Hawaii
When I purchased my AR10tnc, I also purchased 20 magazine conversion kits at the costs of the 30 dollars per kit. I then went to the local gun show and bought 20 M1a magazines. I bought the cheapest ones I could find. From one table I bought 10 magazines of 25 dollars. These magazines were dented and unusable in an M1a but could be used for the conversion kits. I found 10 more that were in about the same conditions for a good price. Total cost per 20 round complete AR10 magazine was 42 dollars. Still costly but not near 100 dollars. (note to self buy more converstion kits and resell at higher price)
Reliabilty
I have a friend with a DSA (FAL) that thought the AR10 was not reliable, so while at the range we had a little competition. We used the dirtiest old ammunition we could find. We also used to some of the best reloads I could make. The end result after 250 rounds and no cleaning,
AR10 - one failure to feed
DSA – one failure to extract
Accuracy
We used Federal 168 Match ammunition, 3 round group.
AR10 - .52 @ 100 yards
DSA – 1.68 @ 100 yards
Cost of the Rifles
AR10 target Navy Carbine 1775.00
DSA (FAL) 1450.00
The real difference in cost is the fact that my AR10 is the target model. SS barrel, 2 stage trigger, and free floated.
End result. They both did great considering the fact we dropped all the ammunition in the dirt before we started. As for myself, I think I will stay with the AR10tnc. Some people say that AR10 is not a combat type rifle, I would disagree. Also during the Gulf War and my time in the Marines, I just got confortable with the AR. I will always keep my pre/ban AR-15's but the AR-10 just gives that extra kick.
Hawaii
Last edited:
I think the above post is the best reason to get the ar10. If you have ar15 types and really like them, the ar10 is similar. Same goes if you hate the ar15.
I have a dsa sa-58 and love it.
But what gets me on all my mag fed rifles is not the price of the rifle. It is always the price of mags.
I have a dsa sa-58 and love it.
But what gets me on all my mag fed rifles is not the price of the rifle. It is always the price of mags.