Ok I have been loading for 223 bolt action and still learning, but I am getting an AR next week and was just asking if you would need to load differently for a semi automatic rifle. I have read conflicting information on weather or not a crimp is needed. Do you want to load lighter for the AR or use the manual for just a 223? Thanks for the replies!!
AR loading
- Thread starter Nube
- Start date
FrankenMauser
New member
Run what works in your rifle.
Generally, it's a good idea to start with data listed as semi-auto data, though.
Sometimes you'll find it labeled as something like ".223/5.56 Service Rifle" or ".223 Remington (Semi-Auto)" or "5.56x45mm AR-15".
You do need to approach it a little differently than loading for a bolt action. In a bolt gun, if it goes bang and isn't over pressure, all you need to worry about is group size (or some other down-range performance metric).
But in a gas gun, you have to find a load that cycles the action properly, while also giving acceptable results down-range.
In my experience, most people that aren't chasing maximum velocity end up with pretty sedate loads in ARs chambered for .223/5.56 (or a cartridge based on them). Most of my family, for example, has independently ended up with loads that are much like my own: Mediocre velocity and estimated chamber pressure of just 44k to 48k psi.
Use what works in the rifle.
Generally, it's a good idea to start with data listed as semi-auto data, though.
Sometimes you'll find it labeled as something like ".223/5.56 Service Rifle" or ".223 Remington (Semi-Auto)" or "5.56x45mm AR-15".
You do need to approach it a little differently than loading for a bolt action. In a bolt gun, if it goes bang and isn't over pressure, all you need to worry about is group size (or some other down-range performance metric).
But in a gas gun, you have to find a load that cycles the action properly, while also giving acceptable results down-range.
In my experience, most people that aren't chasing maximum velocity end up with pretty sedate loads in ARs chambered for .223/5.56 (or a cartridge based on them). Most of my family, for example, has independently ended up with loads that are much like my own: Mediocre velocity and estimated chamber pressure of just 44k to 48k psi.
Use what works in the rifle.
The one thing different with loading for an AR is that you have to be cognizant of the seating depth to fit into their magazines.
Most of the Magpul mags limit O.A.L. to just about 2.270 to 2.273 at the most.
Some of the metal mags give you a few thousandths more.
That severely limits how far forward you can seat heavier bullets.
It doesn't matter if you are loading 55 grain bullets or less, but in my .223s it does impact the accuracy of the 69 and 77 grain bullets that I find are most accurate seated out at around 2.300 in my bolt rifles that don't have the same limited magazine depth.
Most of the Magpul mags limit O.A.L. to just about 2.270 to 2.273 at the most.
Some of the metal mags give you a few thousandths more.
That severely limits how far forward you can seat heavier bullets.
It doesn't matter if you are loading 55 grain bullets or less, but in my .223s it does impact the accuracy of the 69 and 77 grain bullets that I find are most accurate seated out at around 2.300 in my bolt rifles that don't have the same limited magazine depth.
I don't crimp mine , but some bullet powder combo's will do better with a crimp . The one thing I do for semi auto rounds is be sure the shoulder is bumped at least .003 to .004 while my bolt guns I bump .002 and don't care if I get a press fit once and awhile but you never want a tight fitting case to chamber in a semi auto .
armoredman
New member
I have had poor luck with Lee Full Length sizing dies in .223/5.56mm. Half of them will not seat fully, even with using the forward assist and have to be mortared out. I switched to RCBS Small Base dies and that problem went bye bye. I have been told Small Base dies over work the brass, so if you intend on reloading the same case a whole lotta times, better carefully inspect them. However, so far, I have had no issues myself. This is ONLY in AR barrels - the BREN eats everything. And my AR barrels are not the top of the line, Bear Creek and PSA...but they sure shoot nice for me. 
Why is it important for fired cases from semiautomatic rifles have their shoulders set back several thousandths? .004 inch, for example.
That often makes case headspace a couple thousandths less than what new cases have.
Nobody dislikes shooting new cases with headspace the same as full length sized fired ones whose shoulder is set back two thousandths so headspace virtually matching that of new ones.
I tried full length sizing fired cases from Garands but quit because accuracy was worse compared to new cases.
That often makes case headspace a couple thousandths less than what new cases have.
Nobody dislikes shooting new cases with headspace the same as full length sized fired ones whose shoulder is set back two thousandths so headspace virtually matching that of new ones.
I tried full length sizing fired cases from Garands but quit because accuracy was worse compared to new cases.
Last edited:
I do 3 or 4 thou for press flex . When loading for bolt guns as I said I bump 1 or 2 thou but even “I” get a couple now and then that didn’t really bump and there is resistance closing the bolt . If I bump 3 or 4 thou for semi auto that gives me a cushion to work with to ensure the bolt will close freely with out resistance.
Last edited:
I load for both, my 223 bolt gun as well as a few 223 AR guns. While I taylor bullets for my twist rates I load all the same as to crimp. I do not bother using a for example FCD (Factory Crimp Die) as I have no need. All of my 223 is loaded using standard rifle dies which work just fine for me.
See what works for you and then run with it would be my suggestion.
Ron
See what works for you and then run with it would be my suggestion.
Ron
"...need to load differently for a semi automatic rifle..." The only part that is different between a bolt action and a semi is that you must FL resize every time for a semi-auto. Other than that you must also check case lengths(trim, chamfer and deburr, as required) and watch the OAL.
"...use the manual..." You should always use the manual. Loads in manuals are not tested according to the action used. They are tested to SAAMI spec for the particular cartridge.
"...Small Base dies over work the brass..." Nope. They size the case a few thou more than regular FL dies.
"....004 inch, for example..." You can't resize by that much. 4 thou is about the thickness of a regular sheet of copy paper. One or 2 thou you can't even see.
"...use the manual..." You should always use the manual. Loads in manuals are not tested according to the action used. They are tested to SAAMI spec for the particular cartridge.
"...Small Base dies over work the brass..." Nope. They size the case a few thou more than regular FL dies.
"....004 inch, for example..." You can't resize by that much. 4 thou is about the thickness of a regular sheet of copy paper. One or 2 thou you can't even see.
New rifle cases are made with small base dies in their last body sizing station. So said Starline Brass when I recently toured their plant.
That said, regular dies can reduce case life if they're fired in maximum chamber sizes by overworking or resizing them. Setting fired case shoulders back too far is the most common cause of short case life.
Last edited:
Yes. Glen Zediker has reported using just -0.002" of head-to-shoulder reduction from as-fired to run in the AR. I've had no problems with it. Some folks have even just neck-sized-only and gotten away with it, but I expect the risk of a slamfire is increased doing that.
As to crimping, I am unaware of any commercial match ammunition that is crimped and that ammo works fine in the AR.
As to crimping, I am unaware of any commercial match ammunition that is crimped and that ammo works fine in the AR.
In the 40+ years I have been loading 223 for up to five different rifles, I have always followed the practice of crimping if the bullet has a cannellure and not crimping if it doesn't.
I have never had a problem with bullet set-back in semi-automatic rifles from not crimping.
In the early-1980's, I standardized a load for all my 223 rifles using a Hornady Spire Point 60 grain bullet under IMR-4198, IMR-3031 or Winchester 748 (depending on availability). It took considerable work to get the load with three different powders to consistently have the same point of impact at 100 yards. All of these loads are near published maximum (based on load manuals in effect at the time), but I have found no need to "tailor" these loads to the individual rifle.
That said, I should also point out that I am not a high-accuracy shooter so variations attributable to individual rifles are ignored for the sake of the simplicity of having a single round for all five. If you are a precision shooter, then you may find it worth the time and effort to develop and load separate loads tailored to your individual rifles.
Marco Califo
New member
Follow this link and page down until you see the Sierra icons on the right
https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/
They are Sierra's 5th edition 223 articles and load data. One for bolt guns, and the other for semi-auto. Granted, these are now one edition out of date, but they show the similarities and differences between loading for each.
You also need to learn about barrel twists rates 1:7" is very fast 1:12" is very slow. The heavier and longer the bullet you want to use, the faster twist you will want. I have found that Hornady 75 gr OTM DO stabilize in a 1:9" barrel (which is an excellent general purpose Do-All twist).
You may also discover that your rifles chambers in the same cartridge, may have differences. I have a bolt 223 that accepts, and shoots well, cartridges longer overall length than spec. I load special cartridges for that gun with longer bullets. Those long rounds will NOT chamber in another rifle from the same maker. I use factory Norma USA ammo in that gun mostly. They are loaded to spec length, and are very accurate and inexpensive.
https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/
They are Sierra's 5th edition 223 articles and load data. One for bolt guns, and the other for semi-auto. Granted, these are now one edition out of date, but they show the similarities and differences between loading for each.
You also need to learn about barrel twists rates 1:7" is very fast 1:12" is very slow. The heavier and longer the bullet you want to use, the faster twist you will want. I have found that Hornady 75 gr OTM DO stabilize in a 1:9" barrel (which is an excellent general purpose Do-All twist).
You may also discover that your rifles chambers in the same cartridge, may have differences. I have a bolt 223 that accepts, and shoots well, cartridges longer overall length than spec. I load special cartridges for that gun with longer bullets. Those long rounds will NOT chamber in another rifle from the same maker. I use factory Norma USA ammo in that gun mostly. They are loaded to spec length, and are very accurate and inexpensive.
Last edited:
I don't know what twist you will buy your AR with.
Generally speaking,the bullets that will expand in a varmint are 60 gr or less.
A 1 in 9 will stabilize those easily. In a lead cored bullet,69 grs will stabilize in a 1 in 9. I have had good luck with 69 gr MK's and Nosler CC's using Varget. Mag length is no issue
Whie the charts and formulae might say 75 gr Hornady match bullets should be marginal in a 1 in 9 twist,they seem to work fine and they load to mag length.
RE-15 works best for me
The 75 gr Hornady A-Max will not load to mag length.
I use a 1 in 8 twist with 77 gr SMK's and Nosler CC's .They will load to mag lenth.
Hornady's load manual has a very good section for AR Match loads.
Generally,one price you might pay for loading on the hot side is loose primer pockets. Its sad to ruin a lot of brass that way.
DO NOT crank your seater down to contact the shellholder. Seaters crimp.
Back the seater die body off the shellholder enough you aren't crimping. Using a simple washer or something for a setup gauge will give you a repeatable die setup.
Keep an eye on trim length.
Have fun!
You might make note of whether your bolt gun says its a .223 Rem or a 5.56.
The chamber reamers are slightly different,and usually the twist rate,too.
Study up on the topic. The 223 chamber might boost pressures with the 5.56 AR loads.
The 223 twist might be slow for heavier bullet AR loads. In any case,study up on .223 vs 5.56. The brass is generally the same capacity,but the 5.56 is throated for heavier bullets. The 223 chamber has less throat which can boost pressure.
Generally speaking,the bullets that will expand in a varmint are 60 gr or less.
A 1 in 9 will stabilize those easily. In a lead cored bullet,69 grs will stabilize in a 1 in 9. I have had good luck with 69 gr MK's and Nosler CC's using Varget. Mag length is no issue
Whie the charts and formulae might say 75 gr Hornady match bullets should be marginal in a 1 in 9 twist,they seem to work fine and they load to mag length.
RE-15 works best for me
The 75 gr Hornady A-Max will not load to mag length.
I use a 1 in 8 twist with 77 gr SMK's and Nosler CC's .They will load to mag lenth.
Hornady's load manual has a very good section for AR Match loads.
Generally,one price you might pay for loading on the hot side is loose primer pockets. Its sad to ruin a lot of brass that way.
DO NOT crank your seater down to contact the shellholder. Seaters crimp.
Back the seater die body off the shellholder enough you aren't crimping. Using a simple washer or something for a setup gauge will give you a repeatable die setup.
Keep an eye on trim length.
Have fun!
You might make note of whether your bolt gun says its a .223 Rem or a 5.56.
The chamber reamers are slightly different,and usually the twist rate,too.
Study up on the topic. The 223 chamber might boost pressures with the 5.56 AR loads.
The 223 twist might be slow for heavier bullet AR loads. In any case,study up on .223 vs 5.56. The brass is generally the same capacity,but the 5.56 is throated for heavier bullets. The 223 chamber has less throat which can boost pressure.
Last edited: