AR accuracy - cold vs hot barrel

[mitchntx]

Went hog hunting this weekend and a friend was using his Spikes AR in 223.

It was fresh off the range, shooting about 50 rounds. Grouping was 2-3" at 100 yds.

Two shots, hours apart, this weekend were misses. hmm.

Set up a target and shot 5 rounds. First two were high and left about 8 inches. 3rd round was high/left 4 inches and 4 and 5 were inside the the two inch center.

Is this normal? Does one sight it for a single cold shot? Really?

 

[arizona98tj]

It may be normal for your friend's rifle but it is would not be normal for my M&P 15.

Many rifles can have a slightly different cold bore point of impact, but what you described is really bad, IMO.

 

[kraigwy]

Once fouled ARs shouldn't change going cold to hot. Even without sighter's, (and not cleaning the bore since the last session) I expect my ARs not to change in a day of shooting.

My Featherweight Winchesters do after 5-7 rounds but that's a different ball game. Even still, the Featherweights don't change near that much.

In short, Something's Wrong.

 

[wingman]

Open sights,scope,red dot.?

 

[mitchntx]

Nikon scope. Gun rest. Seated.
The AR only has a couple hundred rounds through it.

Tried a mini-14 similarly equipped and had no problem.

 

[wingman]

Could very will be a scope problem or mounts loose, that would be my first
check, I've seen more and more scope problems past few years Nikon included.

 

[Marquezj16]

No and no.

Grouping was 2-3" at 100 yds

I don't know if that's normal with Spikes.

What power is the scope? I'd check to see if it loosened up or something.

 

[mitchntx]

We talked today and I relayed the discussion here.

Scope appears to be fine.

The next course of action is to invest in a shooting vice and take the human factor completely out of the equation before panicing.

 

[blacksky]

What type of ammo... factory new, reloads or hand loads? Cheap factory ammo will have this cause and effect.

 

[mitchntx]

New Remmington ... 185 HP I believe.

I was giving serious thought to buying an AR. Don't know a lot about them. Always considered them "trendy".

Now I'm leaning towards a mini 14.

 

[1Hobie]

185 gr. hollowpoints.........in a .223 AR-15? Well, there might be the problem.

Hobie

 

[Jim243]

Is this normal? Does one sight it for a single cold shot? Really?

No it is not normal. Ya, I cought that 185 grain HP too, and it's illegal to hunt with HP's, one hell of a AR, but not a 223 that is for sure. AR-10 maybe, but Spikes doesn't offer a 308.

Most likely the scope mount came lose and stop using junk ammo for hunting. If you can afford an AR then you can afford decent ammo or a reloading setup.

Jim

 

[blacksky]

New Remmington ... 185 HP I believe.

There's your answer... and that is that!

 

[wingman]

Scope appears to be fine.

Normally they do but the darn things have a way of going south and still look good.

 

[mrawesome22]

185 gr .224" bullet? That would be around 3 inches long lol.

 

[mitchntx]

LOL ... C'Mon, it's Texas ... everything is bigger, better and ...

Remmington 55g. Sorry for the fumble-fingered edit ...

 

[30Cal]

Besides something ridiculous like the barrel nut being loose, there's not much on an AR to look at other than the scope/sights.

 

[s2thalayer]

New Remmington ... 185 HP I believe.

I was giving serious thought to buying an AR. Don't know a lot about them. Always considered them "trendy".

Now I'm leaning towards a mini 14.

Not smart, in my opinion.

AR's can be annoying at times, i had a CAR-15 as my first rifle. It had some jam problems at first, and i still say the bolt system is weird (not on my others, just the CAR variant for some reason). But you have to give the AR platform respect for accuracy. Regardless of what is going on here, I own 3 AR's (CAR-15, AR-15, AR57 pistol) and they all three perform exceptionally well. I can put 30 rounds in a row down range all on a 6 inch target 100 yards away EASY. Not at all suggesting that is utilizing the rifle's full potential. That is simply something that should be a given.

As for the mini-14. I came close to trading my AR57 upper for a mini. After some research though, if you are looking for an improvement, you won't find it in the mini. The mini runs 600 new, most of the time from what i saw at the time. Then, in order to make it an accurate rifle that can compare in any way to what an AR can give you, you'll need to put plenty of $ in it for trigger jobs and such. When i had done the math, i had over a grand total in the mini with irons only. After every mod you can do, you still just have an OKAY rifle. It's not a crazy accurate match rifle, and in fact, i could have gotten a M1a for what i was paying. Where as, you can get an AR for as little at $600 that will be as accurate or better out of the box than the modified mini will be. Plus add in the WAY cheaper magazines for the AR, and that the AR is like the JEEP of firearms in that the sky is the limit in accessories.

There are much better rifles out there than AR's, trust me, i did reports in college about how underperforming the AR is, and that the military would be much better off with another platform. But suggesting the mini could ever replace an AR because of it being a trend isn't fair to the rifle.

If you want a mini, okay, but when i weighed the options for myself, i felt ridiculous for thinking about a mini.

 

[tahunua001]

theres a lot of fishy stuff about this thread.

1. hunting with hollow points is not illegal across the board. in fact a vast majority of states require either polymer tip, soft tip, or hollow points for hunting. a few may ban them but to just say "hunting with HP is illegal" is wrong.

2. I think either your friend is shooting an AR10 instead of an AR15 or you have the ammo wrong. the average bullet used for 5.56/223 is 55gr and hunting ammo is usually between 62gr and 67gr. 185gr is getting into 30 cal ranges.


3. though I've never used remington 223 ammo. I had a horrible time with accuracy with their 243 hunting ammo and eventually gave up and switched to federal powershoks which have served me well since then.

this is going to be a generalization so please bear with me.
4. I shoot a DPMS sportical(bottom shelf AR15) even when using garbage wolf ammo it hits 1-2 inch targets at 100 yards regardless of first shot or 50th shot in the last 10 minutes. spikes tactical is considered a top shelf AR and definitely should not have that wide of variance from hot to cold. either he has a defective barrel, he's using bad ammo or it's definitely not a spikes.

 

[Pert316]

Must be scope or mounts

The barrel heat isn't going to change it that much.Must be loose mounts or scope. My S&W moe will shoots the same after two or three mags hot or cold. Can't say I've shot it more than 3 mags at one given time. But with the heat from that amount no change and that's with using a eotech 1x magnification at 50 yards.