AR-15 Questions

[Groundhog]

I am thinking VERY seriously about buying an AR primarily for defense and as a good SHTF weapon. I have been doing research both here and at AR15.com and have learned a lot already (though I need to know much more). I have a few questions for you guys regarding AR's. So here goes:

1. I am leaning toward a Bushmaster. Does anyone have any experience or know of any practical research regarding their "Carbon 15" versions vs. the "Aircraft Aluminum" standard ones?

2. Based on everything I have read so far it appears that most engagements don't stretch out more that 200 meters or so. I also understand the 5.56 tends to lose a lot of its ability to fragment past that range and functions more like a 22LR. Given this, does it make any difference in accuracy or performance to go with the 16" carbine over the 20" full sized rifle? I was in the infantry way back in '83 and was fully trained on some variant of the A1. I never used a CAR and have not shot one since. I don't own body armor and doubt I'd carry the bulk like you see soldiers today, but I guess you never know.

3. This rifle would not ever be a primary hunting rifle unless I was in a SHTF situation (so unlikely).

 

[Chris Phelps]

The carbon 15s are supposed to be nice rifles... never used one personally.


the "200 meter engagements" refer to current military. In the SHTF situation... who knows how it would play out. surely it would no longer be conventional warfare, so I wouldnt bet on the 200M theory.


The M16A2 is shot to as far as 700m by the USMC and is deadly at any range up to that point (and maybe beyond). 22lr? Nah... I dont believe so.

As for the length of the rifle... that is all up to what is comfortable for you. especially since it doesnt sound like you plan on really using it. I own a 24" heavy barrel Varmint AR as well as a bushmaster Superlight 16"... they are worlds apart. Pick the one that fits you best.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

The "Carbon" series are not known for reliability. I'd avoid them.

 

[line1]

The 16 inch Rock River varmint ,with a 1 in 8 barrel twist , would be an excellent choice. Add a good trigger . Bullet weight and barrel twist is the main consideration on these rifles.

 

[Sturmgewehre]

Every Carbon 15 I've encountered has been less than 100% reliable. I would go with a traditional aluminum Bushy.

 

[Groundhog]

I actually do intend to use the rifle quite a bit if I can find affordable ammo. I will shoot it at local carbine matches, not really for serious competition but for practice.

So, is the 20" barrel superior for longer ranges?

 

[USMCG_HMX1]

The Carbon 15 series is made from carbon fiber, however the one thing lacking on this that I feel is a must is the forward assist.

As far as range and accuracy, the 20 inch HBAR would be a good all around choice. For varmint hunting and distance shooting the 24 inch would be a better choice. For CQB, room clearing drills, and the like, the shorter 16 inch barrel would be the best choice.

This is not to say that a 16 inch barrel wouldn't be good for varmint shots or distance, or use a 24 inch barrel for room clearing drills, because you could do it ..... it's just probably not the best choice.


When qualifying, the Marine Corps only shoots to the 500 meter or 500 yard line, depending on the range. The maximum effective range on an area target is 800 meters and 600 meters on a point target.




Kris

 

[ab8mi]

The Bushmasters at least the aluminum ones are pretty good guns, I currrently have an Armalite M15A2 and absolutely love it. The M15A2 is a 20" and I prefer it over the 16" but to each his own.

I think if you stick some of the well known brands you should end up with a decent rifle. And the other great things about all of the AR's is the ability to customize them.

Just do a little research and you will be good.

 

[Groundhog]

Lots of good answers so far. Allow me to ask a few more silly questions here.

1. Is the M4 just the collapsible stock version of the A3? I have heard of the A1-3 versions and I believe they referred to the carbine as a CAR -15 when I was in. I have not heard of the M4 or an A4 variant before.

 

[Chris Phelps]

No. the "M4" (we cant get the REAL m4) is a heavier barrel (excpet for the indent for the flare launchers), and a different feed ramp. It has a 14.5" barrel and a 1.5" permanently pinned flash suppressor. The superlight I own is a 16" light barrel and a removable suppressor.

Collapsable stocks are available on any AR. If they dont come with them, they can be had for about $60.


A "true" M4 is also Full auto... whereas the M16A2 was a 3 round burst. When the M4s were first released (prior to the M4A1... refered to as the CAR15), the 3 round burst did not auto reset. for example... if you pull the trigger and shoot two rounds, the next trigger pull would only fire 1 round before requiring you to let go and pull again. That issue was resolved before the M4A1 line came into play in the military.



the "m4" you can buy is more form than function. The Superlights will do everything the M4 will... and do it better. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Groundhog]

So, if you get a 20" rifle version, you could put a collapsible stock on it at a later date, right?

 

[OnTheFly]

So, if you get a 20" rifle version, you could put a collapsible stock on it at a later date, right?

Assuming it's all MILSPEC, that is what I understand.

 

[Ac1d0v3r1d3]

I owned a Carbon 15 for all of about 3 hours once. It funtioned about 50% right out of the box. So i returned it

 

[USMCG_HMX1]

MIL-SPEC only applies to the buffer tube in this instance.


A commercial tube is 1.17 inches in diameter, while a MIL-SPEC is 1.15 inches.

Other than having someone with a micrometer measure it for you, the easiest way would be to stick with the brand name you bought; i.e., you have a Bushmaster, buy a Bushmaster collapsible stock.




Kris

 

[Groundhog]

Thanks guys, I really appriciate all the help. Between asking questions here and checking out the resources that were pointed out, I feel like I have a very good beginning handle on AR's. I like this community a lot!

 

[HorseSoldier]

A "true" M4 is also Full auto... whereas the M16A2 was a 3 round burst. When the M4s were first released (prior to the M4A1... refered to as the CAR15), the 3 round burst did not auto reset. for example... if you pull the trigger and shoot two rounds, the next trigger pull would only fire 1 round before requiring you to let go and pull again. That issue was resolved before the M4A1 line came into play in the military.

CAR-15 refers to the Vietnam era XM177, not the M4, technically, though correct use is messy, at best, as "CAR-15" was never military nomenclature.

The M4 has the three round burst setting. The M4A1 was not, initially, adopted as a product-improved M4 to replace the M4, it was for SOF use only, and had the fully automatic setting those units needed.

 

[Chris Phelps]

CAR-15 refers to the Vietnam era XM177, not the M4, technically, though correct use is messy, at best, as "CAR-15" was never military nomenclature.

Actually, according to Dennis Chalker (sourced from 'one perfect op' ), the xm177 (car-15) WAS used by ST6 for a brief time, but was soon cast off due to the 3 round burst problems I described above. Last I checked, ST6 was military?

The M4A1 was not, initially, adopted as a product-improved M4 to replace the M4, it was for SOF use only, and had the fully automatic setting those units needed.

Right. If I remember correctly from another book I read... the first non-SOF use the M4A1 saw was for tank crewmen who were trying to shorten their carry rifles for ease of use when they needed to get out of the tank quickly to fight.

 

[STAGE 2]

Don't, I repeat don't get one of those carbon bushmasters. Also I would suggest looking at CMMG as well. You might want to think about building an AR yourself. It sounds intimidating but its really really seay ad youll save yourself alot of money.

With the barrels, the shorter you go the less velocity you will have. Fr most shooting I think the 16" would be plenty fine.