appleseed riflemen question

[horatioo]

One of the stated goals of Appleseed is to be able to shoot a rack grade rifle. The last Appleseed event I went to I was shooting a score of around 150 to 160. One of the instructors there suggested I try a different rifle. I shot a 194 with his rifle. that was the last AQT, so I dont know if I could have done better.


Should I upgrade to a better rifle? I was using a Marlin 795 with tech sights. The gun I shot the 194 with was a Ruger 10/22 with tech sights and work done on the trigger. It was a lighter trigger pull. Or should I work more on the idea that I need to be proficient with a rack grade rifle?

Is it normal to be a better shot or worse shot depending on the rifle?

Thanks

 

[Shane Tuttle]

People can claim it's not the rifle, it's the shooter. I can only agree to a certain degree. I would reevalutate the quality of trigger your firearm has and maybe looking at improving it's operation. That would be a start.

 

[kraigwy]

I'm a firm believer its the "shooter" not the rifle, but there are caveats.

If you're shooting ISU, say a English Match (prone). You have to clean the target, winners are determined by X count.

A bit different then Appleseed. The 10 ring is about the size of a pin head, the X ring is centering the 22 round in the 9 ring.

So in such a situation, you're not going to be competitive with your Marlin, Savage, or CZ 452's. They are accurate, but not ISU quality.

Even with a target quality Anchutes, such as the 1807 or any other target Anchutes 54 actions, it boils down to ammo. Need quality ammo, even then they are picky about lot numbers.

 

[jrothWA]

How laong have you been shooting the 795?

Anything less than a year just use yto get the fundamentals.

Next, what type ammo,whatever you need for the upcoming shoot or working off a stockpile of ammo?

If just purchaing what needed, suggest to clean the bore good and get couple of 50 rd boxes of different ammo and see what your rifle likes?

I taught Jr.small bore for 4H as a NRA coach and second class had everyone give three round to each others. I also contributed three round of personal stock, (Old 90's era PMC Scoremaster yello box), on clea targets the group sizs varied but the Scoremaster was tighter for all. Some were using Eley Tenex & club others had RWS and the Federal ultra match.

Once they selected good ammo, they really enjoyed and took instruction nicely, with out any frustration, excepting for rifle failure and "omissions of intelligence".

Once you plateau, on scores then consider the cash race to get points.
For the 795 consider trigger work first.

 

[Rifleman1776]

My modern cf rifle is a Winchester Ranger in 30-06. That is the poor man's version of the Mod. 70. I paid $180.00 for it new from a discount store about 20 years ago. When I was competing, that is what I used. The only modification I made to it was to bore a hole in the stock under the butt plate. Before a competition I filled the hole with #7 1/2 shot. My scope was a $3.00 garage sale special.
I'll admit I was a very fussy reloader for target. Followed all the instructions. Selected brass, neck reamed, etc. Bullets were Sierra MatchKing.
I won many matches with that combo. And have autographed targets that have very-very-sub 1" mini groups.
I think it proves that it isn't all the gun.

 

[velocette]

It's not all gun, the nut behind the trigger is usually the deciding factor.
That said, a novice shooter that has to struggle with a gritty, heavy and inconsistent trigger is really at a disadvantage. Most new .22 rifles have sufficient accuracy to be suitable for an Appleseed event. Their triggers however are not. Most - not all - -but most .22 rifles come with dreadful triggers that are difficult to control and darn near impossible for novice to control.
My advice is to take your rifle of choice to a gunsmith, friend, whatever & get the trigger done properly. A smooth, clean 3 lb ( + / - ) break with little or no overtravel will go a long way toward helping you learn to shoot well.

Roger (Appleseed 2010, .22, 248; .308, 246)

 

[smoakingun]

sometimes at an appleseed an instructor will see a student struggling. The student will appear to be getting most things right on the firing line, but not seeing results on the target line.
When I see this on my line, I look closer and the thing I see most often is the student fussing their head around on the rifle, because the comb is too high or too low, or the scope is mounted too far back, and the student is trying to get proper sight alignment. The second common thing I see involves the stock sliding around in the shoulder pocket, the student will usually tense up their shoulder in an attempt to keep the rifle in place, causing the student to struggle with sight alignment.
When I see these things, I will pull the student and rifle off the line and fix the problem, but other instructors will just pull the rifle and loan the shooter on that has the fitting issues worked out

 

[arizona98tj]

And sometimes it is something as simple as the ammo one is using. Poor ammo can easily cause a capable shooter to drop points. From sandbags, these two 10 shot groups were shot using the same scoped rifle.

 

[L_Killkenny]

There could be a multitude of reasons you shot better with his gun. Maybe his 10/22 fit you better, maybe it was sighted in better, maybe he had spent a lot of time testing different ammo's, etc etc. All of them are gun/ammo related and that makes sense considering your improvement in scores back to back. Your skill didn't improve in the few minutes between rounds.

But he recommended a different rifle for a reason. Now we have no idea who this instructor is, how modded his 10/22 is or even if he has a clue what he's talking about but maybe, just maybe, he's seen enough appleseed shoots to know that the Marlin is gonna have a hard time cutting it. The facts are your scores jumped 30 points with a different gun thus confirming his recommendation.

With practice and a few mods can you improve your scores using the Marlin? Sure. But can you over come a 30 point handicap no matter what the reason?

LK

 

[smoakingun]

I have seen plenty of shooters shoot score with marlins like his, it is doubtful that the rifle is inaccurate, but more likely, the rifle doesn't fit the shooter well enough. The appleseed claim to be able to pick up any rack grade rifle with G.I. ammo and make solid hits out to 500 yards is very true. You would be surprised at how well a mil spec rifle fits most adults, where rifles like the marlin are a bit undersized to allow them to be fired by those not quite grown.

 

[seanc]

A fairly low cost upgrade for Marlin .22LRs:

http://www.diproductsinc.com/Products.aspx?CAT=3603


When the instructor handed you the "better" rifle, there might have also been the subtle psychological boost that could have bumped your score as well.