apples to oranges, but CZ75BD or 1911?

DubC-Hicks

New member
Hey guys, I'm looking to get one of these, but can't make up my mind. The 1911 would be a full size Citadel in .45. I know they are in 2 different categories, but which would you get? I'll be honest, I just want another gun. Something different. It might be a HD or competition gun, but no plans like that right now.

How do they compare in the accuracy department? I've heard great things about both. Also, the Citadels appear to be a very nice entry level 1911, is this true? Are they any better than their sister company Rock Island? I think they look a little better, but I prefer function over form. Any help would be great!
 

candr44

New member
I'll take the CZ also over a 1911. The CZ is a more up to date design than the 1911. Its also easy to shoot, reliable, and accurate. I own several CZ's and one 1911.
 

chris in va

New member
75b polished stainless. Skip the BD, you can't do much with the trigger group or convert it to SAO later. And yes I had one.
 

DubC-Hicks

New member
I'm not really a fan of the CZ97. I don't know why, just looks I guess. If I get a .45, it'll be a 1911 or FNX.

So the CZ is actually more accurate than the 1911? I've never shot one, but I was amazed at the 1911s I've shot. One was a Taurus, one was a Kimber, and both could shoot one ragged hole at 15 yards, which is really good for me.

What is wrong with the 75BD trigger? I don't see myself converting it to SAO, but if the B trigger is better than the BD, I guess I could skip the decocker.

Edit: I've also thought about EAAs offerings too, the Witness and the Sarsilmaz B6 if anyone has experience with either. They're both very similar to the CZ it seems.
 
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JimmyR

New member
I own both- and CZ-75BD in 9mm and a RIA 1911 in 45 ACP.

I like both, and depending on your intended use, I have differing reccomendations.

For CC- I go with the CZ, and strongly reccomend the CZ75BD. I like having the first round in DA, and no safety to worry about in the case I need my weapon quickly.

For OC- Tied. I am equally accurate with both. I will say that if you decide to OC your 1911 (if you are legally able to) to look for a 1911 with a RH safety only, since a safety on the outside of your firearm can potentially be flipped down, causing you to carry your weapon in condition 0. I have never had it happen, but have heard of it happening.

For Nightstand use- 1911. This is where, IMHO, the 1911 fits best. A locked and cocked 1911 on the nightstand would serve you well, and 8-9 rounds of 230gr 45 should solve any problem you have.

For Range use**- Whichever one you like, as long as it's a 9mm. I personally think your first 1911 should be a 45, as they were intended to be, but if you decide to get a 9mm 1911, it would be a good range weapon.

**Both the CZ-75BD and the 1911 come with 22LR conversion kits, which could neutralize the caliber argument.

Overall, for me, I like my 1911, and don't really think I'll be getting rid of it. My CZ-75BD will be with me for the rest of my days unless I need it to feed my family. The only time I seriously considered trading my CZ75BD was for a CZ75 PCR- if that tells you anything.
 
look for a 1911 with a RH safety only, since a safety on the outside of your firearm can potentially be flipped down, causing you to carry your weapon in condition 0.
There's also the concern that ambi safeties are prone to frequent breakage.
 

HKFan9

New member
I own both 1911's and CZ-75. I own a bunch of 1911's and 1 CZ-75, but I like both. In your circumstance based on the brand Citadel, I would say definitely go for the CZ.

As much as I personally love the 1911 I feel its only a gun for people who are rather experienced with firearms and training. Like others have stated some are uncomfortable with condition one, and others think its a huge burden to sweep a safety off upon pressing out to your target. Really though I think a DA/SA double stack 9mm is better suited for anyone, where a 1911 is more suited to someone who is only going to practice with that platform.

9mm is cheaper... you automatically get more rounds compared to a .45 and the cz75 is a double stack so your at twice the capacity, what that means is under stress if you miss your target you have more ammo to deploy. I understand statistically speaking most HD/SD shootings are < 3 rounds fired, but I live alone in the country with no neighbors close by and no local PD....I am going to send anything and as many of them down range to stop that threat.

The DA/SA can be carried a few different ways so it is more flexible on preference as well.

I choose a 1911, but really I generally don't recommend them to a lot of my customers for SD/HD because a lot of people aren't willing to train properly and the 1911 can be pretty unforgiving in that sense.
 

JimmyR

New member
Brands

I am no 1911 expert, but I chose a Rock Island 1911, and think it works wonderfully. For the "budget brand" 1911, it had the most positive reviews from more experienced 1911 owners.

I haven't played around with any of the CZ clones, but I would suggest going ahead and getting the real deal. I don't think you'd be disappointed. It also makes aftermarket options (grips, mags, night sights, holsters, etc) more available. I know the clones are close, but I wouldn't wanna take the chance.
 

Trooper Joe

New member
I like 1911's and currently have 3 (Series 70 Colt, new Remington R1, and a S&W ES model). However, about 2 months ago, I discovered CZ's by accident (I bought an excellent CZ clone, made in Turkey, Cinak-Stingray C).

I now am the proud owner of 5 CZ's and they are fantastic guns. I have a CZ 75 D, Police, model that it is amazing (as are all my other CZ.s). I also have 3 compact models (a regular steel frame Compact, a PCR/alloy frame with a de-cocker which is a lot like my P228, and just a few days ago, a CZ Custom shop Compact L which was pushing a $1,000). In this sequence someplace, I picked up a really neat CZ RAMI, safety model, in 9mm which is about the size of a Glock 26.

Since the last one was so pricey, I am going to try and sell at least two but I really hate to do it.

I was recently tempted to by a Beretta M9, only since our military uses it. However, the temptation soon went away every time I handled one. The full size CZ 75D is 10 times the gun the M9 is.

Just some thoughts.

Trooper Joe
 
if you're looking at the citadel only, the cz is definitely the better choice. if you're open to other 1911's in the $500-600 price point, the only thing that would equal the cz is the sti spartan.
 

DubC-Hicks

New member
HKfan, would you recommend a Citadel 1911 just as a range gun or entry gun into the world of 1911s? I've heard pretty good stuff about them. I'm also not going to carry this, and it probably won't be an HD gun, I have my M9 and Glock for that. I just kind of want to sample the 1911s before I jump into an expensive gun and the $450 Citadel seems nice.
 

HKFan9

New member
I have heard nothing but iffy things about them but you have to understand the 1911 consumers, me included are like Scotch drinkers... only the best will suffice, the rest are "garbage" lol.

Quite honestly I can say of the 3-4 I handled personally were used models we took on trade where I work, I wasn't overly impressed. (I never shot one however.)

If you were looking for an entry level 1911 and a range toy, two people already beat me to it. Rock Island Armory (RIA) and STI's Spartan line.

The STI Spartan is not MADE by them but assembled by them, and everyone raves about them. RIA for being as cheap as they are, are actually a surprisingly well made gun, they aren't a match grade custom 1911 dont get me wrong, and they aren't the prettiest girls at the end of the bar, but they work quite well, I owned a used one I got on the cheap and I was impressed.

As much as this is going to pain me to say this.. and I apologize to who I will offend, I absolutely HATE Taurus as a MFG. I have tons of issues with their guns, their customer service even to US as a shop is lousy, I feel they make a lesser quality product. These are only my observations and opinions I know people will argue.:rolleyes:

HOWEVER if you are looking for a entry level 1911 with some of the bells and whistles more sought after than your basic GI models, Taurus 1911's are probably their most dependable semi in their line up, so as an entry level one, or a range toy, you could try your luck there, maybe you have better luck than some of my customers have had in the past. But I can firmly say that issues with their 1911's is seldom compared to a lot of their other models.

People are usually love or hate when it comes to 1911's and than you get into the hard core 1911 purists who are just fanatical. I have owned pretty much one of every major modern design pistol from one time or another, I work in a gun shop and I buy sell and trade my personal guns like there's no tomorrow. As much as people like to rag on the 1911 I personally just keep coming back to it. I am not "old" at the age of 27, so I am not one of these old timers boasting about how guns were made better back in the day. My 1911's are cuddled up next to a FNH FiveseveN currently as we speak. (John Browning probably just rolled over in his grave.) I personally love the platform, it is what I am best with, because its what I am most comfortable with. I try not to shun people away from it, but common sense will dictate that when I have a lot of customers that are at the entry level or beginner stage I hesitate to even show them a 1911, but I think its a platform everyone should try.
 
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Pico

New member
CZ-75 BD vs 1911

The good news is these are both great guns and there is no bad decision.

However, I have owned both and if I could have only one it would be the 1911. The reason is you can take a 1911 down completely much easier and pimp it up with aftermarket parts if you wish.

True, for a beginner the 1911 is more of a challenge in all respects but the first time you take that 1911 all the way down and re-assemble it you will get it. It being the genius of John Browning.

Pico
 

DubC-Hicks

New member
I'm not too much of a beginner, I've been shooting for nearly 20 years. I've just never owned either of these guns. I have owned a Tokarev though, which, to me, seems to be VERY similar to the 1911 design. I loved that gun and shouldn't have sold it, but that's what makes me kind of want to try the 1911.

Also, aren't Citadel and Rock Island both made by Armscor? It doesn't seem like the Citadel would be any worse than the RIA, in fact, I've heard it called the "higher end armscor 1911". I mainly liked it more because of the serrations and lack of giant laser rollmark on the slide.

But I've never seen a Citadel in person, so I can't compare them to the RIAs I've seen.
 

HKFan9

New member
Yes and No.

Armscor is RIA's parent company as I understand it.

Armscor also builds the Citadel's for Legacy Int under contract but Legacy orders them with a different spec sheet. What those differences are... I haven't the slightest clue.

They both carry the same 1 year warranty through Armscor that has a home base I believe in NV if my memory serves me correctly. I had to transfer some guns to them before.

RIA is toted as the better selling name, I paid $200 for a used Tactical model so I really couldn't complain. I wanted a 1911 to keep in my car and one of my $2000 ones wasn't gonna sit in the car alone.:rolleyes: If it didn't shoot I was just gonna have one of our gun smiths gut it and re-do it for me but it ended up being a solid gun.

As far as the Citadel, like I said I only handled a few, and never side by side to a RIA. This might sound crass but working with firearms every single day.. is just like anything else, you barely want to pay any attention to them after awhile.

I still say CZ makes a better gun than any of them, but if you have your heart set on a 1911 then I say go for it. It really cant be THAT much better or worse than a RIA coming from the same parent company plus you have a 1yr warranty buying new. Realistically speaking anyone can make a lemon now and then, you just need to realize that with the lower tier guns its generally a higher %, not knocking them, just a firm believer in you get what you pay for. Your an experienced shooter and you have other defensive firearms, so WORST case scenario you DO have an issue, send it for warranty work and shoot your other guns in the time being.:)

On a side note, another co-worker of mine bought a cheapo used 1911 by I believe Metro Arms if my memory is correct, and that is a solid shooting 1911 for him as well, worth looking into, I personally don't know a thing about them.
 
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DubC-Hicks

New member
I'm leaning heavily towards the CZ. I wish I could find an SP-01. I hate to bring another gun inti the mix, but how is the P-09?
 
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