Anyone use TAC in the Garand?

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BobCat45

New member
AA 4064 shoots very well in the Garand, and also in the AR/223, especially with 80 grain Sierra Matchkings. But that is another story.

Been wanting to try Ramshot TAC in the 223 - partly because I've heard/read good things about it, and partly because it seems often available, and being a ball powder probably meters as well as AA2460 - which I've also used in both rifles and works well.

There are Garand-specific loads using double base ball powers like AA2460 and 20520, H335, W748, and a few others. but I see no listings for TAC specifically in the Garand so I'm hesitant.

Plenty of data is listed for TAC in 30-06 but none of the listings say the pressure curve is suitable for the Garand. It is, however, right in the ballpark on "burn rate charts" for other Garand-suitable powders, so maybe it is OK.

I can stock AA 4064 for the Garand and try TAC in the AR, but it would be nice to know whether TAC would be safe for the Garand if I ran out of everything else.

Anyway there are a number of very well-informed people here and I'm betting someone has relevant knowledge / experience, so that's why I'm asking.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you provide.
 
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BobCat45

New member
You are right, they do not list anything like it on the web.

But they have a more traditional reloading guide as a .pfd file:

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB-1.pdf

that lists loads for 30-06 - including TAC (from 110 grain bullets to 175 grain) - but does not say anything about Garand, so I think they are bolt-action only.

I think I need to stick to 4064 or 2460, I know those work, just wanted to explore a little - but without risking damage to the rifle.
 
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Unclenick

Staff
I'll have to look up TAC, specifically, but most spherical propellants have higher bulk density than the single-base stick powders commonly used in "Garand" loads, which are usually already pretty low in loading density. So they may feel it gets too low with TAC. They usually don't like it to get below 70% for fear of igniting too much surface area at once and getting a pressure spike, though even short of that, you can get excessive velocity variation. I once shot some 1964 National Match ammo in several club Garand's (IMR4895 loads) and got 80 fps of difference between powder-forward and powder back over the flash hole. A more dense powder would tend to make that worse.
 
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BobCat45

New member
Thanks Unclenick!

I was puzzled because there are ball powder loads (AA2460, H335, AA2520, BLC-2 and so on) listed in the archive of Master Po's Temple at https://web.archive.org/web/20000620055732/home.att.net/~Masterpo/M1load.htm but none for TAC.

The Sierra AR manual linked at at https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/ lists TAC for every bullet weight in the .223, so I was interested in trying it. Also because it costs a few dollars less than most other powders.

Also - <embarrassment> I just wanted to try something new, but without damaging a rifle </embarrassment>. Like last year when I bought AA 4064, knowing it is not the same as IMR 4064 but not realizing that nobody listed .223 loads for it (Hodgdon sells so many other 223-suitable powders they don't list it). Works great in the Garand and also in the AR, but I was very cautious working up a load in the AR even though it is listed as slower than IMR 4064 in all the 'burn rate charts'. Actually, although it is very accurate in the AR velocities are low; there is not enough room in the .223 case for enough AA 4064 to cause 'pressure signs' like flattened primers.

Anyway I chickened out and ordered AA 2460 instead.

It works great in the AR (first hear about it on the White Oak site - before it was only on archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20160227230641/https://whiteoakprecision.com/info-reloading.htm ) and tried it, it is great. And it is listed for the Garand in several places so, even though I've only tried it in that rifle once, there is good reason to believe it is safe.

Anyhow, thanks for answering. When/if I run out of 4064 and switch to 2460 in the Garand, I'll post about it.
 
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Jeremy2171

New member
TAC will work in the garand but only for 150s. It doesn't like getting much heavier than that due to low load density.

It will work...there are better powders out there however.
 
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BobCat45

New member
Thanks Jeremy2171!

Based on what Unclenick posted I looked up the bulk densities of the powders listed on the page purportedly from the NRA. H335 is 0.0645, BLC-2 is the same, AA 2460 is 0.0656 and W748 is 0.0655. TAC is 0.0658 cc/grain, in line with the other ball powders listed. All the stick powders are in the 0.0728 to 0.0748 range.

Last year I loaded 10 rounds with AA 2460 to try out because it was listed on that page, and because I'd bought some for the .223. It shot fine but I did not pursue it because I still had some AA 4064 left (same as now).

So - thanks for the reply!

I will continue with AA 4064 in the Garand until I run out. Bought more AA 2460 for the ARs. and will re-evaluate when the 4064 gets low.
 
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Unclenick

Staff
Late catch-up:

If you find the old Western Powder site on the Wayback machine, you'll find they show TAC to nominally be 0.0660 cc/grn, with a tolerance of ±3.6%, so 0.0636 to 0.0684, depending on the lot.
 
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BobCat45

New member
Thanks Unclenick!

I chickened out of the experiment and dropped the idea of TAC in the Garand.

I would still like to settle on one usually-available powder for both Garand and AR-15, but that is a want and not a need.

AA 4064 shoots well in both rifles and so do IMAR 4064 and 4895, and I have some old data that shows AA 2460, H335, and Win 748 as acceptable in the Garand, so there is some evidence that ball powders in that density range can work and be not-dangerous, but as long as I do not run out of 4064 my Garand will be happy.

Speaking of the Wayback machine - I found the 1980 edition of the Hornady reloading handbook, 3rd Edition, and it is fascinating reading. Has a load for the .223 Rem using IMR (not AA) 4064 with a 60 grain bullet that is well more than any 4064 load I've used in the AR.

So far so good.
 
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