Anyone have the pre-9/11 FAA instructions for pilots on hijacking?

simonov jr

New member
I'd like to see what they actually said to pilots regarding how to handle 9/11 types of situations prior to 9/11. I've seen news reports that they were taught not to resist, but I think seeing the actual reg might be both illuminating and possibly a powerful indictment of the HCI philosophy. Seems like we might have some pilots or air traffic control types here who would have it or tell me where to access it...Can anyone help?
 

Fly320s

New member
There isn't a Federal Aviation Regulation telling us how to deal with a hijacking. But it is, or was, a FAA and company recommended response.

You're right, we were told to cooperate with the hijackers. The funny thing is we haven't received any new information or recommendations since 9-11. Obviously, we won't cooperate any more, but we haven't been told to fight either.

I wonder when the industry will decide on a new course of action.
 

simonov jr

New member
No paper trail?

So you're pretty sure there's nothing, no training manuals, no reg books, etc by any entity or agency? How about the one prohibiting gun in the cockpit, isn't it circa the 1980's?
 

Fly320s

New member
Well, I know it's not in the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs). My company manuals are all on computer, which I don't have with me, so I can't give you a firm answer on whether the info is there.

I do know that the FAA had a few short movies made to address the issue of hijackings but those movies are not normally available to the general public. For the record, neither is the info in my company manuals.

I can't think of a good source for you to verify the info.

As far as I know, the info was never given to me in printed form. We only briefly discussed it in class then watched the film.

There are a few FARs dealing with the carriage of weapons. I don't have the list in front of me, but I believe the one you are interested in is in Part 121 (certification of air carriers).
 

simonov jr

New member
Here it is...except it isn't

Sec. 108.10 Prevention and management of hijackings and sabotage attempts.

http://tisco.com/aviation/FAA/far-108/far-108s10.shtml

(a) Each certificate holder shall--
(1) Provide and use a Security Coordinator on the ground and in flight foreach international and domestic flight, as required by its approved securityprogram; and
(2) Designate the pilot in command as the inflight Security Coordinator foreach flight, as required by its approved security program.(b) Ground Security Coordinator. Each ground Security Coordinator shallcarry out the ground Security Coordinator duties specified in the certificateholder's approved security program.(c) Inflight Security Coordinator. The pilot in command of each flightshall carry out the inflight Security Coordinator duties specified in thecertificate holder's approved security program.[Doc. No. 24719, 50 FR 28893, July 16, 1985]

What's the "approved security program"?
Sec. 108.7 Security program: Form, content, and availability.

(a) Each security program required by Sec. 108.5 shall--(1) Provide for the safety of persons and property traveling in airtransportation and intrastate air transportation against acts of criminalviolence and air piracy;(2) Be in writing and signed by the certificate holder or any persondelegated authority in this matter;(3) Include the items listed in paragraph (b) of this section, as requiredby Sec. 108.5; and(4) Be approved by the Administrator.(b) Each security program required by Sec. 108.5 must include thefollowing, as required by that section:(1) The procedures and a description of the facilities and equipment usedto perform the screening functions specified in Sec. 108.9.(2) The procedures and a description of the facilities and equipment usedto perform the airplane and facilities control functions specified in Sec.108.13.

Want specifics? Too bad. They go on to say:
;(4) Restrict the distribution, disclosure, and availability of sensitivesecurity information, as defined in part 191 of this chapter, to persons witha need-to-know; and(5) Refer requests for sensitive security information by other persons tothe Assistant Administrator for Civil Aviation Security.[Doc. No. 108, 46 FR 3786, Jan. 15, 1981, as amended by Amdt. 108-3, 50 FR 28893, July 16, 1985; Amdt. 108-7, 54 FR 36946, Sept. 5, 1989; Amdt. 108-15, 62 FR 13744, Mar. 21, 1997]

GET THE PICTURE? Here is my email to FAA and TSA:

To: Assistant Administrator for Civil Aviation Security
From: (Sim Jr), Indianapolis, IN
Re: FAR-108, section 10 regulations in effect on 9/11/01

Dear Assistant Administrator for Civil Aviation Security:

I hereby officially request a copy of the FAA's written guidelines for FAR-108, Titled "Sec. 108.10 Prevention and management of hijackings and sabotage attempts", in effect on 9/11/01 in the civil aviation industry. I further officially request a copy of the written programs for dealing with air piracy under this section submitted to your agency by American Airlines and U.S. Air that were in effect on that same date. Finally, I officially request that you send copies of these items as they are currently in effect. Thank you for your kind and prompt attention to this request, persuant to "the public's legitimate right to know and interest in aviation information" as cited in the regulation itself, which goes on to say: "FAA will comply with theprovisions of this rule on March 21, 1997". As proof of the written existence of the material I am requesting, I quote from FAR-108:

(a) Each certificate holder shall--
(1) Provide and use a Security Coordinator on the ground and in flight foreach international and domestic flight, as required by its approved securityprogram; and
(2) Designate the pilot in command as the inflight Security Coordinator foreach flight, as required by its approved security program.(b) Ground Security Coordinator. Each ground Security Coordinator shallcarry out the ground Security Coordinator duties specified in the certificateholder's approved security program.(c) Inflight Security Coordinator. The pilot in command of each flightshall carry out the inflight Security Coordinator duties specified in thecertificate holder's approved security program.[Doc. No. 24719, 50 FR 28893, July 16, 1985]

As to availability, I further quote from Sec. 108.7, titled "Security program: Form, content, and availability"

(a) Each security program required by Sec. 108.5 shall--
(1) Provide for the safety of persons and property traveling in airtransportation and intrastate air transportation against acts of criminalviolence and air piracy;
(2) Be in writing and signed by the certificate holder or any persondelegated authority in this matter;

I shall wait for 30 days for your attention to this matter before filing a FOIA request for the information. Thanks again for your prompt and full compliance with this request.

Sincerely,

(Me again)
 

C.R.Sam

New member
Problem.
A good security plan should never be compromised by public dissemination.

I am on both sides here. Want to know. But also think that only those with a need to know should know.

Soooo, unless a time machine lets me get back in the left seat again, I will have to make do with not knowing.

Sam
 
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