Any tips? reloading 45-70

[Farmland]

I just started to reload for my 45-70. Things started off slowly mostly due to operator error. Thus I had a few crushed cases. It was a case of new brand of dies and not reading. This was the first time for Hornady dies for me.

In any event I have everything going well except for the crimping part. I seat the bullet first as directed. Then I back off the bullet seating and try to adjust the crimp. The problem is that I can not get a tight enough crimp.

Since I will be using these in a lever gun the crimp is important.

I do keep adjusting slowly but it seems the only time the crimp is tight enough I get that little budge by the crimp. They will fit into the action of the gun but it is noticeable when you close the action.

I am using the Hornady flex tips. The Hornady die per Hornaday will reload these with the Hornady brass.

Any tips?? Maybe I am doing something wrong?

Then again if they chamber are they fine, even though they have just a slight resistance when chambered?

 

[kraigwy]

Get a Lee Factory Crimp die and crimp at a differant station then seating.

I know you mentioned lever guns so this may not be posssible, but I found the 45-70 is more accurate without any crimp at all, (or just enough to remove the flair so the case will fit in the chamber.

I shot a creedmore match a while back and noticed some of the better shooters don't even seat the bullet until just before they fire. They have the powder held in with a wad, then, just as the get ready to fire, the take the bullet and set it in the case, letting the chambering do the seating.

Cant argue with success, those boys were banging away at the targets pretty consistantly.

 

[crimsondave]

+1 on Lee Factory Crimp die. Works great for me.

 

[Unclenick]

On the OP, that crimp looks funny both because of what I would consider over-crimping and how near the ogive the bullet cannelure is? I am wondering if that cannelure location isn't making you crimp further than normally? Also, the crimp resembles a sharp taper, to my eye, rather than a roll crimp? That wouldn't help. What I can't see is whether it's a sharp taper or just that the ogive location coming off the cannelure is letting the case mouth slip up into the bullet diameter part of the die?

A couple of thoughts: Try sizing the case but not expanding it. See if that grips the bullet enough tighter that the crimp is less critical? You only need enough crimp and bullet-to-case friction that recoil can't push the bullet deeper in the magazine tube. The Lee Factory Crimp may not work with those shorter cases. The collet may be too far forward? I don't know without trying it? But another positive way to avoid this is the Redding Profile Crimp die, which surrounds the case enough to prevent the bulge from ever getting wide enough to interfere with chambering.

Middleton Tompkins also uses soft seating in his single-shot Palma guns. The neck is sized so the bullet can be pushed deeper by finger pressure, then, instead of a wad, he just leaves his bullets seated way out and lets chambering finish the seating against the throat. The only drawback is when a cease-fire is called before you fire, and you have to go muzzle-up (not allowed at some ranges) and extract the case carefully to avoid getting an action full of powder, since the bullets are stuck in the throat by the seating action. They then have to be pushed out with a cleaning rod before the gun is can be put back into action.

 

[Doodlebugger45]

That "looks" to be hellaciously overcrimped to me. But it might be that you are seating the bullet just a tad too deep so the crimp is interfering with the top of the cannelure. I'm not certain though. I do recall some vage memory of the Hornady Flex tip being a problem in seating depth due to its unique shape. For my 2 cents though, I would try seating the bullet a few thousandths longer and applying less crimp.

 

[Farmland]

The Hornady flex tip seats that low. The seating depth on the reload matches the factory. So if it looks strange to you as far as bullet seating it might be because you have never seen the LEVERevolution ammunition. Remember the Hornady 45 70 case is a little shorter. The only problem I am having is getting a tight crimp. Even though Hornady states you can use their dies to reload the flex tip.

I knew the crimp didn't look right. The only problem is when it looks right you can push the bullet back into the case. I could try not expanding the case that sounds like a easy tip to try.

I did order the factory crimp which if it doesn't work on these they should work on the standard size 45 70 - brass.

The good news is that I plan on loading regular size cases mostly for both my Marlin and older Springfield. I do know these are two different loads for safety concerns.

 

[Farmland]

I did a little more work on these. The first thing I did was to give the brass a very, very slight expanding. Just enough to force the bullet into the brass.

Next I used a factory Flex Tip and set the crimp die on it by hand turning it until I felt some hard force. Then I set the bullet depth.

This works ok as I am now not over crimping like the photos show. However the crimp is till not as tight as it should be. A heavy force will move the bullet to the end of the cannelure.

I shot them and they worked fine, but I did order the Lee factory Crimp Die.

 

[Farmland]

I thought I would give a little up date.

As was pointed out the Lee factory Crimp Die will not work with the Hornady short brass. I tires it and yes the brass is just too short. Though it provides the best crimp possible on normal size 45-70 brass. It is fast and easy when working with normal size 45-70 brass. The good note is that I have a cool Lee factory crimp die for normal size 45-70 brass.

I have thought about taking some off the bottom of this die to make it work with the shorter Hornady cases.

The Hornady die does work though it takes a lot of work in adjusting the die to get the right spot. Just a little too much and the brass is over crimped, a little less and the brass is not crimped enough to hold the bullet.

Lets just say this brass takes a lot of experimenting to get the crimp set right but it can be done with the Hornady die.

 

[flashhole]

I use a Redding Taper Crimp Die when loading 45-70. This link may help.


http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/49

 

[flashhole]

My belief is the guys at Hornady sit around and think about stuff that makes you buy their product. Their shell holders for example, only Hornady shell holders work with any other piece of equipment they make, including their new case prep center. I have some of their dies but in general I stay away from their equipment because you can't interchange other manufacturers stuff.

 

[Hey_Allen]

Eh, I don't know how much credence I put in the conspiracy theory, but I can see a bit of that from every manufacturer.

That being said, I've heard people say that you have to use Hornady dies on the LnL AP press, and found out otherwise since I had other brands of dies on hand, but no Hornady dies.

Dillon with their small diameter dies for some machines?

Every quick change die ring manufacturer... (Hornady's LnL bushings, Lee or Lyman with the Breechlock, any others?)


The problem here is as the OP said, the cases of this load are a little shorter to allow for the longer ogive of that particular bullet. Loading them requires shorter dies, or modifying existing dies, just to allow working further down the case than normally expected.

At least most of this is functional with any dies, versus the many factory wild cat cartridges, where you have to hope that someone actually comes out with a die for them.

 

[Clark]

I got a handi rifle 45/70 for $100 ~ 12 years ago, and wondered how hot to load it; trapdoor, lever action, or ruger #1.

I decided to calculate the rifle's strength. I got some help from my father and from a mechanical engineering professor.
I calculated that the action multiple times stronger than it needed to be for Ruger #1 loads.
The first round I shot was a trapdoor starting load.
It kicked me hard.
It combined the burning stinging pain in the shoulder with the big push across the room, with the stock comb jumping up and giving my chin and under cut punch.

I did not fire a second shot from that rifle for more than a year.

Eventually I would verity the calculations, but with my palm on the stock butt, not my shoulder.

At the range, with trapdoor starting loads and 405 gr cast bullets, the trajectory was like a rainbow, with very different zeros at 50 yards vs 100 yards.