Any similar experiences with a Walther PPQ?

[flyboy015]

Just an early disclaimer that this post may seem largely ridiculous, but I am curious to hear some opinions.

If I had $700 to blow at any point in the last 12 months, I would have gone straight to my local big box store and bought a Walther PPQ (4" in 9mm). I've handled one several times, felt the amazing trigger and adored the ergonomics and sights.

Then, just a few weeks ago, my local range finally acquired one to rent it out. And I shot it. And I was horribly disappointed, and very much confused. I have a PPS Classic that I can shoot extremely well. Even though the PPQ is a full-size pistol and inarguably has a better trigger...I sucked with it.

I found the balance of the gun to be alarmingly bad- the muzzle flip was ridiculous. It felt less like any 9mm I've shot, and more like a snappy .40. I tried several times to put the gun down, clear my mind, dry fire downrange several times, reaffirm my grip, and resume shooting, but I couldn't get past the wonky recoil impulse, and my groupings in turn, at 10 yards, were worse than my compact/sub-compact PPS!

I wanted to love it. It's no doubt a handsome pistol...and I certainly would trust anything from Walther with my life (except the PPK, not a chance!). But I hated it.

I took it back to the counter attendant and told him I was totally disappointed. He said something along the lines of "Well have you heard of Caniks?"

A few minutes later I had run 15 rounds through a TP9SF Elite, at the prescribed 10 yards, and had a sub- six inch group with a flyer or two, and I took it back to the counter with love in my eyes, no doubt about it. The sheer- let's call it shoot-ability of that pistol- was insane.

I've shot HK's VP9 and VP9-SK, as my range has both. And I did extremely well with each. I've done pretty well with my buddy's Shield 2.0, which is very close to my PPS. But the PPQ, the pistol I've been drooling over for the last three years, I couldn't connect with.

Pretty ridiculous that I'm thinking about going back to give it another whirl, right?

 

[T. O'Heir]

That's why it's always suggested to try one before you buy. Mind you, 4" 9mm's tend to be 'flippy' at the muzzle and have a bit excessive muzzle flash and noise. Grips and the ammo used matter too.
Factory triggers are irrelevant. All new firearms require a trigger job.

 

[TunnelRat]

I'm not sure I'd say all 4" 9mms are flippy. I also wouldn't say all pistols need trigger jobs. A lot of that seems relative. Like flippy compared to what, a 5" Beretta 92? A trigger isn't good enough compared to what, a match 1911?

While I also personally find the PPQ a bit flippy, many like it. Recoil though seems to be relatively subjective. If you like something else better there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

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[Uncle Malice]

I can relate to your experience. I've had 2 PPQ's and sold both. I agree that it seemed quite snappy compared to other guns - even those with similar bore axis. And the grip ergonomics were JUST "off" enough in my hands that it didn't fit right, regardless of which grip insert I used.

Sad, because I really liked the PPQ. In my personal environmental testing and "torture" testing, the PPQ was the 2nd best performer that I've ever experienced in dealing with the very fine sand that we have in the AZ desert.

The trigger break and reset are stellar, but I really didn't like the long and notchy/gritty take-up in both specimens that I had. The Apex trigger would likely resolve that. Overall, I prefer the CZ P-10 C trigger to the PPQ. It's not as glass-like crisp as the PPQ, but it's smooth in every aspect, takeup, break, and reset. It's got a little creep to the break, but it's all very smooth and I shoot it incredibly well. It's FEELS a little snappy, but it settles down and comes back on target immediately.

 

[jwamplerusa]

I don't own a Canik, but I have had an opportunity to shoot one with a few rounds through it, and was impressed.

The owner of a range south of us had purchased a TP9SA when they were fairly new to the market in response to a challenge regarding how good the trigger was for a Turkish budget gun.

During a discussion with my son and I, he commented that he had bought it, inspected and lubed it, and had fired over 2000 rounds with no maintenance handing it to several students and customers for their use. When it was offered to us he had field stripped it for inspection and lube, and found nothing of concern.

He related he had originally purchased it to prove the trigger quality or gun wouldn't hold up, and was pleasantly surprised he was proven wrong.


He was impressed with the pistol and trigger, and so were we. If you like the Canik and shoot it well, it could be the gun for you.

 

[Dan-O]

Cdnn has both the 9 and .45 for less than $500.

Only walther I own is a m2 pps. I love it.

 

[JDBerg]

I'm not sure I'd say all 4" 9mms are flippy. I also wouldn't say all pistols need trigger jobs.

For sure not all 4” bbl. 9mm’s are flippy. I don’t think my Gen3 19 with a Grip Force Adapter and a Pachmayr grip has much muzzle flip, but the ammo I shoot also bears into play with how snappy the gun can get during live firing. And good grip technique helps to keep the sights on target. And I agree that not many pistols need trigger jobs, with the exception of the MKII BHP that I most recently bought, I tend to pass on pistols in need of trigger work.

A lot of that seems relative. Like flippy compared to what, a 5" Beretta 92? A trigger isn't good enough compared to what, a match 1911?

Compared to my STI Trojan 9mm 1911 and my CZ 75B, the rest of the nines are definitely flippy. And IMHO, if I’m hitting my targets the trigger is good enough.

While I also personally find the PPQ a bit flippy, many like it. Recoil though seems to be relatively subjective. If you like something else better there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

Shooting is always subjective. I’ve liked the PPQs that I’ve had a chance to shoot, and if I ever move away from the state of madness that I’m in now, I’d go with a Walther P99 AS myself. The OP gave an opinion on a PPQ rental gun, and it is certainly his prerogative to post that opinion.

 

[sigarms228]

I have more than a few 9MM pistols and really like my PPQ and did pretty well with it from first range visit after buying one shortly after the PPQ came out . I don't find much difference in perceived recoil between my poly 9MM pistols of the similar weight and size. A lot has to do with how well a particular pistol fits ones hand/fingers, grip technique, and trigger control.

 

[P-990]

Most likely it's due to the small grip of the pistol. With the Medium or Small backstrap in place, there just isn't a lot of surface to get your hands on to control the pistol.

I'm an unabashed and unashamed Walther PPQ (and P-99) fan. (See my screen name.) The thing I've found with my PPQ is that I have to run the Large grip on it for it to be at it's best in my hands. As much as I hate hearing the complaints of "it doesn't feel like the 1911 that God gifted us through John Moses Browning" when people describe grip feel, putting the L grip on the PPQ makes it fill my hands like a 1911! And that's a good thing for dealing with recoil and muzzle flip.

With the smaller backstraps, the pistol feels better holding it in the store. But they're awful on the range if you have Medium or larger hands. Using the modern thumbs-forward, two-handed grip, you need the extra space for room for your support hand palm to gain traction on the grip. With the small backstrap in place, my support hand ends up putting pressure on the fingers and palm of my strong hand instead of on the pistol. The gun then squirms, moves and slips all over the place when shooting.

My PPQ is the only polymer pistol I find I shoot as accurately, as easily as my 1911s and S&W revolvers. (And T. O'Heir, I usually shoot the S&Ws in double-action too.) Honestly, we humans are adaptable monkeys, and you could probably learn how to shoot really well with the PPQ, even after your initial impressions. I think we spend too much time worried about how a grip "feels" holding the gun doing nothing with it, and need to stop to consider how this grip will work when pushing the go pedal. What feels good, might not end up working well on the range.

(I want to try a Beretta APX some day, but as they come out of the box the grip size is about the same as a Walther with the M-grip on it. And I just know that grip is going to squirm and move with every shot.)

(Oh, and before I forget, I don't have very large hands. I wear a size Medium glove.)

Edited: I just re-read and saw the "good" group with the Canik was 6", plus fliers, at 10 yards. I'm shaking my head and not sure how to address that. My PPQ will easily do half of that at 25 yards, and it isn't hard to hit a steel IPSC silhouette with it from 50 yards.

 

[MisterCrabby]

I have a 5” m2 stock that I use for competition. Wouldn’t trade it for anything. Have had zero failures if any kind with a variety of ammo.

But it’s about what works for you obviously.

 

[cslinger]

Totally opposite. The PPQ is probably the best striker fired gun/trigger I have ever run. That being said I would never carry one as, for me personally, as the trigger is to short and too light for me personally for a defensive arm.

 

[OhioGuy]

I have a 5" Q5 Match, which is just the 5" PPQ with a blue trigger and a cutout for an optic. Oh, and a $250 price premium!

I do understand what you're saying about perceived recoil, and it does seem to snap more than some others I've shot. I don't know why. That said, the trigger is fantastic and I'm very much on the bandwagon of "day-um! What a trigger!" among PPQ owners. I find it a bit harder to control in rapid fire than my CZ P-07, which I bought for about half the price, but I'm definitely more accurate with the PPQ, even when shooting in single action on the P-07 (counterintuitive, right?)

The complaint about the PPQ being "flippy" is not new -- it's one of the reasons Walther is now marketing the $1400 Q5 Steel Frame model, where the greater weight helps control the recoil better.

But the PPQ is hardly a difficult gun to control. I shoot matches with different guns and whenever I switch (usually after a string of 8 matches over 2 months) I always notice all the little quirks in whatever gun I'm switching back to. After a few sessions with the PPQ I'm used to it again, and back in the zone.

I shot it back to back with a G34 (that's the 9mm with the 5" barrel...right?) and can't say I really perceived any difference in recoil between the two, but the ergonomics and trigger on the PPQ were noticeably better to me.

 

[OhioGuy]

Totally opposite. The PPQ is probably the best striker fired gun/trigger I have ever run. That being said I would never carry one as, for me personally, as the trigger is to short and too light for me personally for a defensive arm.

Sorry to go down a diversionary path -- what weight is heavy enough to count as "safe for carry?"

I had an instructor once run me through a series of drills in which he would surprise me in some way as I was drawing the UNLOADED gun. I was drawing a CZ P-07 with its ~12 lb DA trigger when he gave me a shove from behind, and dang if my finger didn't find its way into the trigger guard, and dang if I didn't grip with both hands and pull the trigger anyway.

That kind of told me that a startle response, or fumbling the draw under stress, will over come pretty much any trigger weight. Just my perspective though.

 

[TunnelRat]

Perception and personal preference, similar to what I said above, are always a thing. Will it make a difference ultimately? Maybe not as you say, but humans are humans.

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[cslinger]

Trigger weight is such a personal thing. I was not saying the PPQ is unsafe or unsuitable just that I prefer a heavier longer trigger pull.

I prefer this not because of startle response because as you said under stress or shock overcoming a heavy trigger is trivial. It comes more from my desire for a more positive trigger during administrative handling, holstering etc.

Again this is not me saying “Ya’ll are damned fools for carrying X, Y, Z!” Because that isn’t how I feel (unless a design is inherently flawed or dangerous which the PPQ surely is not). It is just me having shot everything under the sun this side of belt fed and knowing what I personally prefer.

 

[TunnelRat]

Bingo. I'd give you a thumbs up if I could.

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[OhioGuy]

Trigger weight is such a personal thing. I was not saying the PPQ is unsafe or unsuitable just that I prefer a heavier longer trigger pull.

I prefer this not because of startle response because as you said under stress or shock overcoming a heavy trigger is trivial. It comes more from my desire for a more positive trigger during administrative handling, holstering etc.

Again this is not me saying “Ya’ll are damned fools for carrying X, Y, Z!” Because that isn’t how I feel (unless a design is inherently flawed or dangerous which the PPQ surely is not). It is just me having shot everything under the sun this side of belt fed and knowing what I personally prefer.

Cool, and I totally understand.

Personally I won't carry any gun that doesn't have some way of immobilizing or otherwise deactivating the trigger when holstering. "Keep yer booger hook off yer bang switch!" is great advice but too many people, up to and including experienced professionals and instructors, have shot themselves when holstering the weapon. I carry the P-07 for the hammer more than for the pull weight. I also carry a PPS M2 -- not quite the same but at least it has an exposed striker indicator that will jab my thumb if anything is pressing against the trigger.

I see grip safeties filling the same role, although I don't especially like them. If I had a Glock, I'd definitely outfit it with "The Gadget" that lets you immobilize the striker by pressing down on the back of the slide.

Personal preference.

 

[ttarp]

I had pretty much the opposite experience, shot several magazines through a Canik, I didn't like it, and shot pretty poorly too. Tried a PPQ, and first magazine shot the smallest group I've ever done to this day.

This is what makes variety, and having options so great.

 

[chemcal]

'shot my PPQ very well, but would not carry it; traded it for a Sig P229.

 

[TxFlyFish]

Shot P99 and PPQ I have to agree unusually snappy recoil coupled with slippery grips. It’s like Walther tried to get everything right on paper and doesn’t translate to real life. I also have PPS as well and I agree it’s a more instinctive and easier to shoot gun