Anti-gun message of the movie "Jakob the Liar" and historical question

Futo Inu

New member
Just rented this last night. I am thoroughly disgusted by the weak, lame, did I mention WEAK and LAME ending of this movie, and it's anti-gun message, both directly and symbolically, IMO.

If you didn't see it, Jacob Heim, played by Robin Williams, is is a Jew in the Warsaw ghetto towards the end of the WWII, and well, things happen... you'll prolly just have to watch it. It's a very good movie UNTIL the end.

If you saw it, you remember that the old man gave the revolver to his son-in-law-to-be, the young boxer guy who's a friend of Jacob's, and when Jacob is elected the leader of the uprising, he is given possession of the gun. He then hides the gun in a cabinet at his house. You remember that Jacob instructs the boxer guy to collect something "special" from his home if he doesn't return after going to surrender himself for supposedly having the radio. Well, the young guy thinks that the something is either the radio or the gun (not sure which, but probably the radio), but finds out it's the little girl. Well, near the very end, when he is forced to state in front of everyone that he never had a radio, *I* was thinking that what would happen would be that he would, instead of confessing, give the signal ("the bird is in the cage", or whatever), that the uprising was to begin at that moment, and the little girl was going to pull out the revolver and give it to the boxer guy, who then commences to shoot a gestapo member, and gain possession of their first long gun, and so the uprising begins, etc... Well, without giving it away totally for those that haven't seen it, this is not what happens - as you know for those that have. Instead, it is ONLY the Russian forces who end up liberating some of the Jewish prisoners, not any internal uprising whatsoever.

So, the symbolic anti-gun message that I think the producers are trying to relate to the domestic gun control debate, IMO, is that if you just wait and don't use any violene of your own, the gov't powers that be (in the movie, the Russian army; in the US, the police), will rescue you - so don't try to defend yourself in any way. The more direct anti-gun message is Jacob hiding the gun away, and before that, not allowing the young guy to shoot the two gestapo members when they come to take the professor away. In any event, for those that have seen it, you understand that they took a very good movie, and made an incredibly crappy, lame ending to what could have been an extremely good movie, with just a good, tweaked ending. :mad:

BTW, I have my "conspiracy theories" about how "The Rock" has a very very anti-gun, or at least anti-militia message to the sheeple, despite being full of kick butt action. If you care to know, ask.

In any event, could a history buff tell me, what was the real deal in the Warsaw ghetto? There was in fact an extensive uprising, no? If you got your history from this movie, you'd certainly never know there was any. :mad: Grrrrrrrrrrrrr....
 
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Futo Inu

New member
OK, here it is

I think "The Rock" is a 100% designed anti-militia message to the sheeple, from the producers.

Lookit, you'll remember that the "bad guys" leader is Ed Harris's character, and the "good guy" is Nick Cage's character. Well, if you'll recall, the motive of the "bad guys" is a pure as it gets - what was it, exactly? -Freeing some prisoners whom everyone agreed were "good guys" - someone please refresh my memory. In any event, I don't need those details in order to remember the anti-militia message: Ed Harris was threatening to use violence against a few innonents in society - some collateral damage -(shoot the missiles containing the super-toxins), in order to obtain what everyone agreed was a good result - EVEN the "good guys". But in the end, he was obviously shut down by Nick Cage, who was a member of the US gov't (federalis) - the good guys. So the message was clearly: "It doesn't matter how good your cause is (in the case of militia members, protection and restoration of our 2nd amendment and other fundamental civil rights), violence/revolt/sedition is NEVER an acceptable means to accomplish it. IIRC, though, the producers took great pains to emphasize how "good" Ed Harris's cause was - someone please refresh here - or if not, I'll just have to rent the damn thing - but I don't want to contribute money to the anti-gun jackasses who produced it. Grrr.

Sad thing is, it's damn fine movie. :mad: -perhaps analygous to Ruger, which must die, though they make fantastic firearms - sad indeed.
 

Foxy

New member
great pains to emphasize how "good" Ed Harris's cause was - someone please refresh here

IIRC, he wanted to get compensation paid to the families of those special operations soldiers who are officially listed as dying in a training accident instead of KIA, thus depriving their family of compensation and giving the gov't plausible deniability.
 

Cosmoline

New member
The Ruskies rescuing the Jews in Warsaw??!? What a bunch of crap. "The Uprising" was much closer to the truth. It contained several excellent scenes drawn from the German's own accounts, including one of a group of singing jackbooted Krauts getting burned down by the "inferior" Jews. The one thing I hate more than a Nazi is a *singing* Nazi.

I can only hope Robin Williams got burned down. Sadly, I suspect he didn't. He's one of the most overrated actors of all time. Most of his movies are sentimental leftist tripe.
 

Cain R

New member
Now College World History course was quite a few years ago, but didn't the Russians halt their advance on Warsaw until AFTER the uprising had been completely stamped out, just so they would not have to deal with an armed pro-western faction?

Seems easier to let the Nazi's deal with them and inherit a weak unarmed populace ripe for Red Political Comissars etc.
 

Byron Quick

Staff In Memoriam
The general uprising, upon the approach of the Red Army was later. And yes, the Russians paused, to let the Polish Home Army be destroyed by the Nazis.
 

Mikul

New member
I disagree with much of Robin Williams philosophy, but he's usually funny as hell.

I saw an interview with him recently:

INTERVIEWER: We really love your work.

ROBIN WILLIAMS: Who's "we"?

I: PBS.

RW: Oh PBS! You're wonderful people. You're the ones who have been keeping Mr. Rogers on the air.

RW (in Mr. Rogers voice): Hello boys and girls. Today we're being visited my Mr. Colin Powell. He'll be talking about "collateral damage." Do you know what collateral damage is, boys and girls? That's when bombs get normal people.
 

Futo Inu

New member
In the movie,

The Russians didn't rescue the population at Warsaw, BUT what WAS depicted was that the population was put onto trains headed for the extermination camps, and then Russian tanks halted the trains en route and rescued the Jews - bottom line, the Ruskies recued them - no uprising whatsoever, only talk of one.

BTW, I have actually liked several of Robin Williams's movies - Awakenings, Goodwill Hunting, Patch Adams...Didn't see What Dreams May Come, but heard it's good, too. I always blame producers, not actors, for BS propoganda - I don't blame Mel Gibson for all the anti-NRA stuff in the Lethal Weapon flicks, for example.
 

Kaylee

New member
I always blame producers, not actors, for BS propoganda - I don't blame Mel Gibson for all the anti-NRA stuff in the Lethal Weapon flicks, for example.

Having seen RW rant on in one of his stand-up routines about those horried gun-things, I think it's safe to say he's agin' us.

That said, he's one funny teddy bear of a dude. :p

-K
 

another okie

New member
There were two Warsaw uprisings in World War II.

The first was by the Jews, who received little help from the Polish underground. It was finally crushed by the Germans after they brought in heavy equipment.

The second uprising was by the Polish underground, launched as the Germans were retreating from Eastern Europe. That's the one where the Soviet army stopped and let the Germans destroy the uprising. The main Polish underground was anti-Nazi, but also had plenty of anti-Semites in it. The Soviets wanted to make sure the Germans killed all the Polish patriots so they could put their tame little puppet government in.
 

IZZY

New member
Sounds like it's not just anti gun, but a white wash of history, and the benifits fall to the Communist side.

They should have called it "Hollywood The Liar." 24/7
 

Hkmp5sd

New member
"The Rock" has more problems than just the one mentioned.

(1) The Army, which stores, transports, maintains, trains and actually uses the biological weapons require an FBI "chemical freak" to recover them and disable the missiles.

(2) The biological agent is inside glass beads and is still supposed to be able to withstand being shot in a missile. Don't forget the little guidence chip that can be quickly unplugged was also supposed to withstand the missile launch and flight without coming loose.

(3) With all of the assorted tunnels in the prison, there is only ONE that reqiures a motion sensor against penetration. That one could have simply been welded shut or otherwise blocked.

(4) During the first meeting of the generals, the biological agent was described as being designed to withstand being burned by napalm. Boarding the jet, Cage states the gas was discovered by accident in the same way champagn was discovered.

(5) Mason is taken on the mission because there is only one way to get from the tunnels into the prison, which is through the shower room. All the Seals climb up and are killed in the shower room. Cage and Connery then proceed on a different path which takes them to the morgue where the biological agent is stored.

(6) Why did the Seals fly across the bay in easily detected helicopters, then drop into the water and swim to the storm drains? They could easily swim that distance or even use a small boat and remain undetected.

(7) Finally, the ever poplular one. Mason was in prison since the early 60's when Kennedy was president. At the end of the movie, when Cage recovers the microfilm of Hoover's secret files, that Mason had hidden prior to his capture, Cage asks if his new wife would like to know who really killed Kennedy.
 

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
I am not easily offended. "Jacob the Liar" offended me. Robin Williams offends me now, largely due to that film.
Fortunately, my TV viewing time is somewhere between zero and four hours per month (0-2 DVD/taped films), so being annoyed by actors is a minor threat. :rolleyes:
 

croyance

New member
You might not want to watch any TV, because most shows are anti-gun.
As an example, look at shows like "Alias", "Dark Angel" or "Mutant X". The good guys never use guns, even though their opponents are armed. After knocking out an armed bad guy, they toss the gun to the side, even though their is a very high probability of bumping into more opposition. They message is rather blatant - only evil people with nefarious agendas have guns. The guys with guns are always jerks, who constantly get surprised, have terrible gun safety, and can't seem to hit anything except those handy rails.
That is just scratching the surface of what passes for "popular entertainment".
This does not even get into the rather thin plots, cartoon like characters, artificial dialogue, and laughable acting that is common.
 

Futo Inu

New member
HKMP5 - Wow, I'll bet your wife refuses to watch movies with you! JK :D I didn't realize all the technical inaccuracies of the Rock. Tell me, have you seen "Vertical Limit". Even I could see that the story in that one had more holes than swiss cheese, with the always-leaking-for-some-reason hyper-explosives that detonate when exposed to the sun..... :rolleyes:

croyance - yeah, it's ridiculous - throw away a gun - in my day, we watched the A-Team - they shot lots of mini 14s and what not, but never hit anyone. :)
 

fmjcafe

New member
I personally wouldn`t spend a penny to see anything with Robin Williams in it.Great actor or not,I once saw him do a stand up routine that was so insulting to gun owners that it turned me off him forever.
 

carebear

Moderator
There's a new interactive technique out. It's called "reading." There's what they apparently call a "book" called Mila 18. It's about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. Turn off the computers and TV's, live a little.

:D
 

Hkmp5sd

New member
Sorry Futo, never saw that one. Like mentioned in carebear's message, there is another method for entertainment and knowledge, reading. I could open a shooting range in my house with all of the sound insulation lining the walls. 5000+ books. Bad habit I picked up riding submarines many years ago, back in the pre- PC/VHS/Nintendo days when the only thing to do on a submarine other than work was sleep or read.

P.S. The theater was the ONLY place she would watch a movie with me. No Talking!:)
 
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