Anti-depressants and mass shootings

[simonov jr]

This was a huge front and center issue around mass shootings in the ‘80’s and 90’s, as the generally dead perpetrators were commonly found to have been on these mind and mood altering drugs. However I can’t recall a single case in the last 10 yrs except possibly Sandy Hook where the mass shooter’s toxicology report was released. What changed, as it is literally never mentioned any more?

 

[TXAZ]

Many, particularly the news media and antis, want to blame the weapon, not the trigger puller. After all, we all know that VEHICLES are solely responsible for DUI’s, correct?

We had an excellent seminar at the start of school on what is the problem to look for. And while there's no exact formula, there are some very significant indicators that we've seen before, and before and ......

It’s not the 20+ members of the shotgun and rifle team, who have access to firearms, ammunition and are very well trained on their use, safety **and consequences**.
It's also not the members of most any other organized club or group, they also have an adult sponsor(s) and support system that (should have training) on identifying students and others that are at risk for numerous substantial issues.

The problem is the loner kid(s) who have no support group, are not invited into existing socializing groups, have little in common with others, generally don't participate in organized school or after school events, generally finds major aspects of their life difficult or impossible to deal with, and sees 'a blaze of glory' as a legitimate way out. They would have love to have talked to someone or cry for help but they either didn't feel comfortable talking, or felt they might get in trouble saying how they really feel, or no one was there to listen. They are likely to have been bullied (but not always) and found no one to help stop it. They typically don't have good interpersonal skills dealing with issues.

The real issue is we don't teach peaceful conflict resolution starting in Kindergarten as some others do, much less in high school, and the US often waits for someone to have a 'certified problem' to get appropriate and effective mental health help.

In summary, a district I won't name started teaching conflict resolution to elementary school students last year. The number of conflicts and 'trips to the office' were cut in half.

Our system of dealing with mental health needs to be addressed first and foremost, and not adding additional guns on ban lists or making more gun free zones.

 

[Tom Servo]

There might be a correlation between the use of certain SSRI's and the ideation behind mass shootings. Problem is, it's pretty shaky and tenuous at best. It's enough to call for more research into the higher risks of violent behavior associated with those drugs, but we have to bear in mind that millions of other people benefit from their use and never consider doing such things.

We have the same problem with the "desperate loner" theory. Many of these shooters are angsty and disaffected, but so are millions of teenagers. Most of them learn to play the guitar or write bad poetry. More to the point, we have had a few mass shooters who didn't fit that profile at all.

Take the Columbine kids. Despite the media forcing a pre-scripted narrative on us about bullied nerds, those kids were actually very popular across several peer groups. In fact, they were bullies themselves.

I'm glad we've taken the time to focus on counseling and anti-bullying tactics, but they're not a panacea for this problem. It's far more complex and nuanced to explain by one or two factors.

 

[Rangerrich99]

There might be a correlation between the use of certain SSRI's and the ideation behind mass shootings. Problem is, it's pretty shaky and tenuous at best. It's enough to call for more research into the higher risks of violent behavior associated with those drugs, but we have to bear in mind that millions of other people benefit from their use and never consider doing such things.

We have the same problem with the "desperate loner" theory. Many of these shooters are angsty and disaffected, but so are millions of teenagers. Most of them learn to play the guitar or write bad poetry. More to the point, we have had a few mass shooters who didn't fit that profile at all.

Take the Columbine kids. Despite the media forcing a pre-scripted narrative on us about bullied nerds, those kids were actually very popular across several peer groups. In fact, they were bullies themselves.

I'm glad we've taken the time to focus on counseling and anti-bullying tactics, but they're not a panacea for this problem. It's far more complex and nuanced to explain by one or two factors.

Fairly certain (though if I'm wrong, someone please feel free to correct me) that the leader of the Columbine gang was on some kind of benzo for weeks/months before the shooting. Others in the group may have been as well, I don't remember for sure, but it's also true that there have been many other incidents where these kinds of drugs were present in the perpetrators.

A long time ago I posted an article that included a partial list of incidents where benzos were being used/abused. Some of the incidents were right out of "Texas Chainsaw Massacre," or some other horror flick.

 

[FITASC]

IIRC, an article showed every young male mass shooter was subjected to the use of psychotropic drugs as a kid - typically for the treatment of ADHD

 

[rickyrick]

When the VA offered me antidepressants for pain, I refused. Not because of anything I had heard, but because I read the information papers that came with the prescription. Suicidal and homicidal tendencies were among the possible side effects. Coupled with the fact that you can’t stop taking them.

 

[Rangerrich99]

When the VA offered me antidepressants for pain, I refused. Not because of anything I had heard, but because I read the information papers that came with the prescription. Suicidal and homicidal tendencies were among the possible side effects. Coupled with the fact that you can’t stop taking them.

Gee, that sounds nice. By all means let's make sure we get a few hundred of these to every person in America post-haste.

 

[Bart B.]

Remember that depressants are among some of the most popular drinks on earth. And some people cannot stop drinking them.

 

[4V50 Gary]

I think there is some correlation but the media won't report it. After all, who are the advertisers?

BTW, a few years back a French psychiatrist was found liable when her patient who was on psychotropic medication killed someone.

 

[jmr40]

IIRC, an article showed every young male mass shooter was subjected to the use of psychotropic drugs as a kid - typically for the treatment of ADHD

There are several drugs for treating ADHD. Most are stimulants. A common misconception is that the kids are drugged to keep them calm. The reality is that most kids with ADHD are too calm, bored actually and they have trouble staying focused. When they can't focus on what they are supposed to do, they find creative things to do that they should not. The stimulants they take help keep them focused.

And while it is true that many of the folks involved in shootings have been prescribed anti-depressants, most committed their crimes after they stopped taking their meds.

 

[FITASC]

My youngest was diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Adderall which, whole a stimulant, is also a psychotropic drug. Along with Ritalin these things are as bad as opioids to the junkies.

most committed their crimes after they stopped taking their meds.

And there is ZERO serious study of the long-term affects. No one thought that exposure to asbestos or coal dust or other things would have resulted in bad things when they were first involved.............yet decades later, we know different - who's to say that some years later we don't discover the same connection with these drugs? And remember, the Left owns the schools and they want these kids on drugs..........wouldn't THAT be ironic if these antis who pushed these drugs were actually to blame for these shootings?

 

[44 AMP]

..wouldn't THAT be ironic if these antis who pushed these drugs were actually to blame for these shootings?

You mean like how the anti-assault weapon push resulted in MILLIONS of new "assault weapons" being in the hands of the public?

Military look alike semi auto rifles were a small part of the firearms market, UNTIL the government decided to try and ban them.

 

[USNRet93]

And remember, the Left owns the schools and they want these kids on drugs..........wouldn't THAT be ironic if these antis who pushed these drugs were actually to blame for these shootings?

Wow, don't think you could find a bigger brush at HomeDepot...

hyperbole
[hīˈpərbəlē]
NOUN
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Maybe a little??

 

[wingman]

Drugs, Liquor, social media, lack of parents, all contribute to some degree, new laws certainly will not solve a morals problem in my opinion.

 

[FITASC]

Quote:
And remember, the Left owns the schools and they want these kids on drugs..........wouldn't THAT be ironic if these antis who pushed these drugs were actually to blame for these shootings?
Wow, don't think you could find a bigger brush at HomeDepot...
Quote:
hyperbole
[hīˈpərbəlē]
NOUN
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
Maybe a little??

You disagree that the Left controls the public education system? As someone who took a second (albeit short) career as a teacher, I can tell you that the liberal bias is VERY prevalent, and ANY kid who acted up had their parents told by the school to get them on one of those ADHD drugs. One school had the nurse dispensing because "the parents couldn't be trusted" to dose their own kids...
SO yes, the brush is broad because it happens.

 

[USNRet93]

the Left owns the schools and they want these kids on drugs..........wouldn't THAT be ironic if these antis who pushed these drugs

You disagree that the Left controls the public education system?

Who's 'the left'? Social liberals? Democratic socialists? Fiscal liberals? The 'left' controls the entire public education system? From the HS in Malibu or Mill Valley to the inner city school in Baltimore...or Memphis?

The stretch from left controls public education to left pushes drugs to left causes mass shootings...broad brush and a bit more complicated than that..I'd say.


Kinda depends on where you are talking about, maybe a little? But left/antis owns schools, left/antis pushes drugs, left/antis cause the mass shootings....that might make the far right happy and the far left angry..but a 'little' more complicated that that.maybe, eh?

"All democrats want to confiscate all guns in private hands"
"All republicans want to abolish all gun control laws"

Never been a fan of absolutes because they are never..absolute.

 

[TailGator]

Stepping aside from the politics, I would like to point out that the control group for people on ant-psychotic medication is not the normal population, but the untreated population with the same or similar disease states. Drug inserts are written by the legal department to avert liability. When I read them, I have a hard time separating drug side effects from unsuccessful treatment.

 

[MTT TL]

However I can’t recall a single case in the last 10 yrs except possibly Sandy Hook where the mass shooter’s toxicology report was released.

This is not true at all.

Part of the problem though is that each state has different laws on what can be released medically.

My youngest was diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Adderall which, whole a stimulant, is also a psychotropic drug. Along with Ritalin these things are as bad as opioids to the junkies.

Adderall is essentially low grade meth. It is very popular among meth head mommas (and their boyfriends) who get it prescribed for their kids and then keep it for themselves.

And there is ZERO serious study of the long-term affects

Actually there are a lot of studies of long term effects. At low doses the effects are mostly not good, at high doses; well... meth head.

Drugs, Liquor, social media, lack of parents, all contribute to some degree, new laws certainly will not solve a morals problem in my opinion.

The old drug liquor has been around forever and the linkage of alcohol to domestic violence and other criminal behavior is hardly an unknown factor.

Most of the drugs that most of the mass shooters are known to take are either relatively new or as in the case of cannabis much more powerful than we have previously known with unknown and not well understood effects.

And while it is true that many of the folks involved in shootings have been prescribed anti-depressants, most committed their crimes after they stopped taking their meds.

This also is not true. Some did for sure. Some took huge doses and then ran out, leading to huge chemical imbalances. Some took other drugs that they were not supposed to that interacted badly with whatever drugs they were on such as stimulants, marijuana or alcohol.

People with mental illness have a very high rate of non-compliance with their drug routines. This bizarre expectation that doctors have that people with behavior issues are going to follow a medication routine is completely unexplainable, unsupportable and practically criminal in negligence.

Stepping aside from the politics, I would like to point out that the control group for people on ant-psychotic medication is not the normal population, but the untreated population with the same or similar disease states.

This is absolutely true. If you want such a control group you can find it in 1960 and earlier. At that point none of the population was being treated with these drugs. Strange there were practically no mass shootings outside of wars and gang wars.

 

[TailGator]

This is absolutely true. If you want such a control group you can find it in 1960 and earlier. At that point none of the population was being treated with these drugs. Strange there were practically no mass shootings outside of wars and gang wars.

A fair number were institutionalized in those days. It's just not an easy comparison.

 

[MTT TL]

A fair number were institutionalized in those days. It's just not an easy comparison.

Actually a fair number are still institutionalized these days. They just happen to be in jails and prisons and not mental hospitals because we don't have the same infrastructure and we as a society no longer have empathy or concern for the mentally ill.

But you are correct, it is a far from perfect comparison. But it does control 100% for the drugs.