Anti-CHL idiot alert (MN)

Longshot

New member
Let's all drop her a note of thanks for this tripe she passes off as jounalism.

LINK

Staff Columnist


Concealed carry makes it too easy to jump the gun
Too bad the concealed-weapons bill that made it through the Minnesota House this week wasn't on the books Monday, when a masked gunman jumped the counter of a St. Paul bank and held a gun to the teller's head.
The dozen customers and employees caught in the takeover could have reached into their breast pockets and purses and unloaded a scrap-heap of hot metal into the robber, like a rapid-fire scene in a Guy Ritchie film. Bullets would ricochet. Blood would spurt. A body (or bodies, since you might have to sacrifice a bystander or two) would lay in a heap. And bad guys would find out this is a law-and-order state, dadgummit.

As it was, the guy got off with an undisclosed amount of money and the shaken teller will get a little trauma counseling. No one was hurt. Dang.

Though law enforcement officers adamantly oppose this bill, it easily passed the House with a 85-46 vote. Supporters congratulated themselves this week with the usual rhetoric about self-defense, freedom, ``equalizers'' and such. ``The crazy people have the guns,'' said Rep. Mike Osskopp, R-Lake City, ``and the purpose of the Boudreau bill is to even the playing field.''

I assume he means that the potential passage of this bill would mean more noncrazy people can have guns -- although you could also make a good case that guns can also increase the incidence of crazy behavior. I don't mean to suggest that guns make people crazy. I just want to suggest that the presence of a gun can turn can an ordinary moment of despair, anger, even boredom, into an act of violence.

With a gun, a sad, lonely kid who gets picked on in school can add to our nation's growing list of school shootings. With a gun, an ugly domestic argument can escalate into a homicide. With a gun, a man with untreated depression can become another rural suicide statistic.

With a gun, even people with a permit to carry one can get a little trigger-happy. Though it may surprise some of you to hear this, I am a graduate of the Gunsite Training Center, an Arizona school that is considered by the carrying cognoscenti to be the Harvard of firearms instruction. A national magazine sent me there for a story a few years ago, and during intensive training with a Colt .45, I came to be reasonably competent firing two rounds, center mass, then finishing off my target with a well-placed shot to the brain pan, a technique instructors referred to, mysteriously, as ``The Mozambique.''

It was great fun.

What was less fun was being in a state where everyone had a weapon. They say an armed society is a polite society, but from what I saw in the Arizona desert, where nearly everyone in the region took advantage of the open carry law, an armed society is also a very jumpy society. In public places, everyone with a holster sat with their backs to the wall. When a waitress dropped a tray of dishes, half the men in the cafe jumped up, their right hands hovering at their hips. Hotel keepers near the gun school were wary renting rooms to students, having lost so many television sets to guests convinced they ``heard someone breaking in.'' In the ``simulated home invasion'' we had to pass for graduation, more than half of my classmates failed because they missed the dummy intruder and accidentally killed the gardener.

Maybe we'll have this to look forward to someday in Minnesota, where our reputation for mild-mannered passive-
aggressiveness will be replaced by wild and woolly aggressive-
aggressiveness. ``Is that a pistol in your pocket?'' we'll be able to wonder, self-defensively, about our neighbors, our co-workers and the strangers we pass on the street, ``or are you just mad to see me?''



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Laura Billings' column runs Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays. She can be reached at lbillings@pioneerpress.com or (651) 228-5584

my response

Ms. Billings,

America is weary of the spin-doctored attempts to make gun-control palatable. The days of obfuscate, legislate, and confiscate are over.

I am not an extremist. I see both sides of the gun safety issue, and I support legitimate, reasonable efforts to keep firearms away from young children, psychopaths, and criminals. I am also a CHL holder who has never filled a lobby full of innocent bystanders with "hot lead". If I were prone to such activities, It is not likely that I would subject myself to an intrusive background check prior to doing so.

You are mistaken in assuming that CHL's contribute to crime. Oregon has nearly 100,000 CHL holders. We have low crime. In Oregon, as well as nationwide, CHL holders are rarely, if ever, involved in criminal activity.

I am a former correctional officer. As such, I can tell you for certain that criminals fear the random element a CHL holder presents. I have heard it from them time and time again. In addition, the thought of breaking into an occupied private home, or an independently owned (read: possible gun on the premises) business is considered stupid, even for a criminal.

There is a big difference between propaganda and journalism. You seem to be letting your bias prevent you from learning from the facts. I respectfully suggest you re-examine your position.

[Edited by Longshot on 04-12-2001 at 10:10 PM]
 

jimpeel

New member
"Hotel keepers near the gun school were wary renting rooms to students, having lost so many television sets to guests convinced they ``heard someone breaking in.'' In the ``simulated home invasion'' we had to pass for graduation, more than half of my classmates failed because they missed the dummy intruder and accidentally killed the gardener."

I would be very interested in authenticating the veracity of that statement and maybe even getting a response letter to the paper from the school and some of the surrounding hotels.

Any takers out there in Arizona want to bring this tripe to their attention?
 

irvin

New member
Ms. Billings

I believe that Ms. Billings true ideals are shown by her statement "I am a graduate of the Gunsite Training Center, an
Arizona school that is considered by the carrying cognoscenti to be the Harvard of firearms
instruction. A national magazine sent me there for a story a few years ago,"

She did not want to go to Gunsite but was sent there. I doubt she paid attention to the Wednesday lecture or she would have known why "everyone with a holster sat with their backs to the wall."

Furthermore I doubt the statement "When a waitress dropped
a tray of dishes, half the men in the cafe jumped up, their right hands hovering at their hips." I am sure all looked but I really doubt that they jumped from the table and started to reach for their gun. A tray being dropped and striking the floor doesn't sound like a gunshot!

Having been to Gunsite and eating in most of the places near by I can assure you that it is a very polite place to be and one feels very secure.

be safe irv
 

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
Has anyone verified her claims?

I will be conversing with her later tonight, need all the info I could get. Please email me any findings.
 

David Scott

New member
The same blood-in-the-streets claims were made in Florida (and probably every other CCW state) when shall-issue was first proposed. Newpaper and magazine columnists spun John Woo/OK Corral/Lethal Weapon fantasies based on movies and TV, not reality. They cried about gunfights over parking spaces at Wal-Mart.

None of it happened.

Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Wake up, ms. Billings.
 

416Rigby

New member
My reply

Dear Ms. Billings,

As an accomplished journalist, I assume you to be capable of in-depth analysis, critical reasoning, out-of-the-box thinking and honest reporting of facts.

This set of skills seems to be part of the pre-requisites for the job; it only makes sense in such a competitive arena as reporting.

So why is it that when most of you journalists report or comment on the gun debate you seem to shun away from objectivity and cool-headedness? What is it about personal ownership of firearms that make you trade reasoning for hysteria and verifiable facts with exaggerated hyperbole?

It is depressing with what consistency and predictability the "mainstream" members of your profession undergo this bizarre transformation from analytical adults to irrational college freshmen when reporting about firearms.

Let's pick a random passage in your article:

"As it was, the guy got off with an undisclosed amount of money and the shaken teller will get a little trauma counseling. No one was hurt. Dang."

Ms. Billings, please. Does that seem to you like responsible, level-headed, fair journalism? Your implications, innuendos and, frankly, your condescension in this passage are unworthy of the good journalist that I am sure you are.

The bottom line is this. We, as a country, have been entrusted with Constitutional freedoms, among which the freedom of expression, which you exercise every day in your profession; and the freedom to bear arms, which I choose to exercise every day by legally carrying a concealed weapon for self-defense.

Please, let's not abuse these freedoms by acting irresponsibly. Neither of us. A newspaper is as much of a weapon as a handgun, and the act of using both instruments should come with a high sense of moral, intellectual and even emotional responsibility.

It would be easy and cheap for me to end this with a wise-crack such as:

"...Ultimately, there are far more bad newspaper articles out there than dead bodies from shooting involving CCW holders. This statistic is very telling about the respective sense of responsibility of journalists vs. "gun folk"...

But it would be demeaning to both you, me, and the freedom we enjoy.

Respectfully,

Tom Leoni
 

hube1236

New member
You guys are too nice

What a nice informative piece you wrote. You should be filling the space of one of those deceased, highly opinionated commentators that divine the pages of all of our gun "luvin" newspapers. Some of the facts that you missed in your diatribe are as follows:

1) All men are rapists.
2) All women are incompetent and need to sleep their way to the top.
3) All whites are racists.
4) All blacks are criminals.
5) All Chinese own laundry mats and are good at math.
6) The Boy Scouts are a hate group.
7) The Red Chinese are really a swell bunch of fellows.
8) Spanking children is to be abolished and offenders- ALL OFFENDERS- jailed.
9) Bush stole the election, although livestock voted for Gore (in your state).
10) The only way to help a people who are down, is to keep them down and give them bread and circuses.
11) If the damned Washington Redskins would just change their names, the healing could begin.


These are also the opinions of people out there. They are not any more right than you are. Thanks for your opinion and I hope that someday like the rest of us your life does not come down to wishing you had a gun. If you choose not to own one, then put a sign on your front lawn, wear a button, but just keep your uniformed opinion to yourself.
 

CORB52

New member
My response

How was this reponse? Its hard to hold your temper with these liberals.Dear Laura,

Its very interesting how people who hate the 2nd amendment like you always get lots of print space but the 2 million people who defend themselves with a gun don't. Not one story is ever reported on television or printed pro 2nd amendment. If a story hits the media and a person used a guy to defend themselves, the part where the gun was used in defense is never mentioned.

I suppose elderly and women should just accept rape, robbery and murder instead of defending themselves. Like Bob Knight said,"If rape is inevitable then lay back and enjoy it." I suppose your answer is just call 911 and wait. First of all it takes on average 20 minutes for police to respond and that is in an urban community. It is worse in a rural community. Second most people will not even have the chance to get to a phone. I know it would be ok for your parents or elderly relatives to respond in a life or death situation by using a guy just not anyone else should.

Few gun owners carry because the want to be like "Dirty Harry." They want the chance to defend themselves like Suzanne Hupp would have liked. Mrs. Hupp is the Texas state rep. who had to sit and watch her parents be gunned down before their eyes because Texas had a law that law-abiding citizens could not carry their guns in public places. I am sure if your parents or loved ones were about to be gunned down before your eyes you would want to be able to pull that .45 you shot so well. Or would you let them be executed while you call 911?

When a criminal decides to pull a gun they have to be stopped. We already have too many ineffective gun laws now. Criminals don't obey laws and the last thing a criminal wants is to see this bill passed.

An excellent book on the subject "More Guns, Less Crime" has been written by John Lott on this subject. Every country that bans gun ownership has higher violence rates and as many illegal guns as the U.S.

There are many more points to be made but the final one I will leave you with this. The 2nd amendment is as important to our freedom as the 1st. The founding fathers were clear that is was meant to be an individual right to carry and explain it well.

I doubt you would read up on the subject or be open-minded about it. That is why people like myself have to join the Gun Owners of America, N.R.A. etc. We have to fight to keep our rights not because we want to play "Dirty Harry" as Liberals try to say.

Let me end with this. I have a CCW and the last thing I ever want to do is shoot another person. Unfortunately some in our society force the issue by violence. It is their only creed. Think about it. Does a violent criminal want this law to pass or fail? My cousin is a federal prison guard and he always says that a "my opinion is always right liberal" has never been the victim of a violent crime or has been around violent felons like my cousin has. Our criminal justice system lets these people out, thanks to liberals who say they have been rehabilitated, and many go out looking to commit violent crimes again.

I do not mean to be demeaning to you in this response but you article reeks of someone who failed to do much research on the subject and failed to state the other side of the issue with any creditability.

By the way, I am not a red-neck, beer drinking, pick-up driving hillbilly like a liberal would suggest. I am a Christian, have a Masters degree in business and work as an executive for major corporation.





Sincerely,

David R. Corbett
 
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