Answer to firearms ownership laws?

[Striker1]

Okay guys, nobody asked me but this has been my secret opinion on gun ownership for a long time:

1. All persons desiring to own a firearm must pass a Federal safety course and qualification

2. All firearms registered

3. Those who complete the course shall be allowed to carry anywhere - anytime - any state

What do you think. Would the antis be satisfied or just welcome it as a small step towards confiscation since law abiding owners would already be in a database?

 

[TheBluesMan]

What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand, my friend?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The antis will not be satisfied until there is a complete ban on the ownership and possession of firearms for all American citizens. Excluding of course, police, military, the rich, powerful and famous.

 

[22-rimfire]

You can't be serious??? Now is not the time to be reasonable. Being reasonable is what the anti's want, because they are so "reasonable". The fact is that they are NOT reasonable or flexible. Pro-Gunners can not give up anything that it makes ownership more difficult.

Having to pass a test only makes things more difficult... just make the test more difficult so no one can pass... being reasonable is not the answer.

 

[Lord_Nikon]

Okay guys, nobody asked me but this has been my secret opinion on gun ownership for a long time:

1. All persons desiring to own a firearm may, given that they aren't in prison.

2. All firearms unregistered.

3. Those who wish shall be allowed to carry anywhere - anytime - any state

What do you think?

 

[novus collectus]

Rimfire22,
I was just about to direct him to the "Gun-Friendly Northeastern States" thread where you just wrote the answer to his question a little while ago.

Striker 1,
Read that thread, I just mentioned, where rimfire 22 posted the answer!!! I think it will give you some of many reasons why that idea is bad, bad, bad IMO.

 

[Striker1]

Well that stirred up a hornet's nest...but let me explain some of my points:

Qualification - I have and I'm sure you have also, been arouund some folks who were unschooled in firearms safety...and who probably shouldn't be near a firearm. I would prefer everyone would at least be required to go through NRA safety hopefully we can agree on that!

Registration - I don't trust the antis to be satisfied with that but in light of current feelings I might do it if I would be authorized to carry anywhere. The problem is what if later down the road confiscation laws were passed? That would B-A-D!

And to The BluseMan: I understand it fine, problem is...they are already "infringed"

The basic point of my statements is I expect a never ending battle between us and them because we can't trust them with even a little slack!

 

[J.D.B.]

There is only ONE logical reason for the registering of firearms. CONFISCATION! It started with Hitler and has yet to end.
Josh

 

[TheBluesMan]

...problem is...they are already "infringed"

Well, I can't argue with you there. But why would you willingly allow the .gov to infringe upon our rights even more?

I would prefer everyone would at least be required to go through NRA safety hopefully we can agree on that!

Nope. Take out the word "required" and we can talk. I've owned a firearm since I was 10 years old and was instructed in its use by my Father and my Grandfather. I had no formal firearms training until I was 38! Would you disarm me? What about my neighbor who is being stalked and borrows a gun from me? Would you disarm her?

Registration - I don't trust the antis to be satisfied with that but in light of current feelings I might do it if I would be authorized to carry anywhere.

I am assuming that you are suggesting registration on a federal level. If you have ever filled out a 4473 (which I have not) you, and your gun are already in a federal database.

By inviting the feds to legally maintain a list of firearm owners, you're willingly taking the first step toward confiscation.

First, they registered the Jews. Then they moved them all into the ghetto...

 

[Lancel]

The problem is that a series of such "reasonable compromises" have already carried us far away from the 2nd Amendment.

If the 1st Amendment was abused the same way, we would need to be registered to have this conversation, it would happen at a slower rate, and with smaller font.


Larry

 

[XavierBreath]

1. All persons desiring to own a firearm must pass a Federal safety course and qualification

Who sets the qualifications? Who has the authority to change the qualifications? Who may judge another person to be qualified? Will you have to wait for a qualification class before you can buy a gun you need? What about private sales?

2. All firearms registered

All firearms listed in a database for confiscation. A gun is a last resort against tyranny. The first step of any tyrant rising to power is disarming the populace. Do not think that it cannot happen here.

3. Those who complete the course shall be allowed to carry anywhere - anytime - any state

The qualifications between ownership and unrestricted concealed carry must be separate. By making them the same you will either restrict ownership, or restrict carry. Allowing anyone who can shoot a gun safely and accurately to carry guns into courtrooms, into prisons while visiting prisoners, and other places where restrictions are arguably in the interest of us all will allow people to commit crimes of passion. After three or four courtroom shootings by angry family members, do you not think that this will change? What do you think will change? Where you can carry or who can own a gun?

 

[Striker1]

Bluesman,

I am not in favor of more infringement, my part of the deal is if they register, I get to carry

As for your friend, she should have access to protection, but should she have to do it illegally?...I don't think so. It would seem that she should learn the proper handling of firearms as well as the when and when not legal ramifications.

Concerning those who have not received training from thier Dad's and so on, is it better that they learn what they know from the movies? I've met plenty of folks who learned that way, some were dangerous and some were not.

Also what happens in most states when you take the CCW classes? Do you become a registered gun owner? I'll bet you do, but lot's of folks are glad to have the opportunity.

Since I brought all this grief on myself, maybe one of you could fill me in on what exactly the GOA and NRA positions are on CCW?

Thanks

 

[Striker1]

Xavierbreath

I judge people to be qualified all the time when I sign their scorecard, and I assume all states that allow CCW do the same.

I don't see what quals have to do with private sales

As for the quals, it shouldn't be hard to get in class nor too expensive, maybe cost of the bullets and targets...we all pay enough in taxes

Crimes of passion aren't restricted to public areas, they can happen anywhere. Would it make you uncomfortable to think someone could be in the courtroom with a concealed weapon and no certification or background check. I though infringement was B-A-D?

 

[IZinterrogator]

Qualification - I have and I'm sure you have also, been arouund some folks who were unschooled in firearms safety...and who probably shouldn't be near a firearm. I would prefer everyone would at least be required to go through NRA safety hopefully we can agree on that!

I have been around people that are completely unschooled in child-rearing, and should never be around a child, but the government does not require a license to have kids. It trusts you to do the right thing until you screw up, then Child Protection shows up and takes the kids away.

Registration - I don't trust the antis to be satisfied with that but in light of current feelings I might do it if I would be authorized to carry anywhere. The problem is what if later down the road confiscation laws were passed? That would B-A-D!

So why make it easier for them by letting them know where they are? If given the choice between no carry and no guns, I'll take no carry.

Also what happens in most states when you take the CCW classes? Do you become a registered gun owner? I'll bet you do, but lot's of folks are glad to have the opportunity.

The government knows that I am authorized to carry, but it doesn't know what I have or where I keep it. Part of registration becoming confiscation is that the government knows what you have and where it is, so when you don't voluntarily turn it in, they come and take it from you. Just ask a Brit or a Canadian.

 

[Striker1]

IZinterrogator

- Then there's that old argument that we have to be liscensed to drive...they don't just trust us to do that right. And you should know that qualification makes sense, or would you prefer soldiers to just wing it if they never handled that 249? As for the kids thing well I'm sure there are some thinkers out there working on that problem too!

- I am not in favor of registration myself, but my point is if that is what "they" want then I want something too, the right to be trained and to carry it where ever I please. So maybe I should have said, if they pass registration laws, shouldn't the carry right be our demand?

- If the gov't comes to you and says we know you have a weapon and we want it...do they have to know where you keep it?

 

[jburtonpdx]

If the 1st Amendment was abused the same way, we would need to be registered to have this conversation, it would happen at a slower rate, and with smaller font.

And some words would be banned as "Assault words". Things like copy and paste would require that the original typist sign an authorization to copy (because of typical red tape, you would have to have an authorization to copy for even your own stuff...)

We could apply for "Free Speech" permits, but they would be restricted with all sorts of legislation. For example, there would be no free speech allowed in government buildings, business that posts signs restricting free speech permit carriers from exercising it in there store or on there parking lot, schools, college campuses, locations that sell alcohol for consumption (at least in Ohio), in your car you would have to some how openly display your free speech and hand it over to any law enforcement officer that demands it, you could only use it in very specific circumstance... blah blah blah etc etc...

It is time to write the legislatures again... We need to make sure and put our votes where our mouth is, support a lobby that supports us, and stop supporting business that does not want us as customers... (wow somebody got me on a rant again today)

 

[RigatoniRider]

Striker1,
I suggest readings from May 2005 American Rifleman:
pg12 Kayne Robinson 'Why We Fight - Death By A Thousand Cuts'
pg14 Chris Cox 'S.397'
pg18 James Norell '.50 caliber ban'
Please keep in mind that the same folks you are concerned with owning firearms, vote. I would not trust an errant person with a firearm, nor do I trust them with my/our firearm rights. The concept of middle ground, though agreeable, is not realistic when you are dealing with extremists.

 

[XavierBreath]

I judge people to be qualified all the time when I sign their scorecard, and I assume all states that allow CCW do the same.

Consider that is the course is federally mandated, you will no longer be doing this. It will be a Civil Service job and likely very similar to the DMV. You will no longer grade targets. Someone will be grading YOUR target and telling you whether you can own a gun. "Sorry Striker....that flyer a half inch out at 25 yards means you have to turn in all your guns by 5:00 PM. You can get them back if you qualify."

I don't see what quals have to do with private sales

If you cannot OWN a gun without having "qualified", you cannot BUY a gun without having "qualified. If you cannot buy or own a gun, it would be very difficult to practice and qualify.

As for the quals, it shouldn't be hard to get in class nor too expensive, maybe cost of the bullets and targets...we all pay enough in taxes

Some of us have paid $150 and up for a CCW course in our area. That may sound excessive, yes, but it's a fact. A course that expensive just to own an object is outrageous. I waited over 3 months for a course to roll back around and be taught in my area. Again, to long just to own a gun. What would you propose next? A course to own a dog? A course to own cutlery?

Crimes of passion aren't restricted to public areas, they can happen anywhere. Would it make you uncomfortable to think someone could be in the courtroom with a concealed weapon and no certification or background check. I though infringement was B-A-D?

When you remove restrictions to concealment, you remove restrictions to concealment. If the only criteria for being able to carry a gun in these areas is ownership, then the angry victim or relative who owns a gun can carry it right into a courtroom and use it. For the record, yes, I believe that only LEOs should have guns in courtrooms and prisons. It may not stop an event like in Georgia, but it would stop most angry but otherwise law abiding people from becoming felons in the heat of a trial.

 

[novus collectus]

Striker1,
I am curious to the thoughts you have and was wondering what state you grew up in? This is not personal, it is for satifsfaction of my inquisitiveness.
It appears as if the states that have had restricitive laws in their in place for much of people's youth produce people that feel as if "some" restrictions of gun ownership and use are o.k.. (I speak from an experience of this "allowable restrictions" attitiude, having had it myself when I was a youth living in a "somewhat" restrictive state)

 

[Hugh Damright]

The federal government has no authority to do things like require a federal gun safety course or require registration of firearms. And if they did, it is certain that the result would be despotic gun laws.