Another Mass Shooting. Will this become part of the race for the White House?

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Kreyzhorse

New member
Sadly, another mass shooting occurred this morning in Kentucky. (God bless all of those affected.) While pointless and clearly terrible for the community and families involved, I wonder how long it will take this to become fodder for McCain and Obama.

As the elections kick into high gear, will this force either of them to defend and address their real stance on guns? I know McCain is more or less pro-gun and Obama is no friend to any one with a gun. I am curious to see how (or if) this effects the politics of the race or it is too hot of a button for either of them to address. This might be especially interesting considering the SCOTUS might release its opinion on Heller vs DC this week.

My hunch is that both McCain and Obama will make a non commital comment and side step any real issues. Neither of them will say any thing that might polarize voters.

Your thoughts on how this may or may not effect the politics of the race?





Police: 5 dead in Henderson, Ky., plant shooting
Jun 25, 06:50 AM EDT
By RYAN LENZ - Associated Press Writer

HENDERSON, Ky. (AP) -- An employee shot and killed four people at a plastics plant before killing himself early Wednesday, police said.

The shooting happened after an employee at Atlantis Plastics had an argument with a supervisor, Henderson police Lt. David Piller said.

In addition to the four deaths, Piller said two others, who were injured, were flown to hospitals in Evansville, Ind.

The employee used a handgun he retrieved during a break, Piller said.

The shooting victims were scattered around the plant, Piller said.

"It appears the shooting was random at this time," Piller said.

Police did not say if the supervisor the employee argued with was among the victims.

A woman who answered the phone at a number for Atlantis Plastics declined to give her name and would only say that the company would not comment until a 3 p.m. news conference.

Names of those involved in the shooting have not been released.

Hours after the shooting, police had set up a roadblock on the street leading to the plant, which is in an industrial area on the southern side of Henderson.

Other employees at the plant were sent home.

In a news release on the company's Web site, Atlantis Plastics says it is a leading U.S. manufacturer of three kinds of products: polyethylene stretch films for wrapping pallets of materials, custom films for industrial and packaging uses, and molded plastic pieces used in products such as appliances and recreational vehicles.

The company has 700 employees, including 200 in Henderson, and annual sales of $110 million, according to business directory Hoovers.
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apr1775

New member
May the Almighty Father's comfort be with the victims' families.


Allow me to make two predictions:
1) the workplace had a "no guns allowed" policy
2) the shooter had a history of mental illness
 
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Musketeer

New member
Gas is over $4.00 a gallon. Nothing else matters tot he voting public at large.

Seriously, if people really believed that "this could happen to them" in significant numbers you would see more people seriously considering their own safety. That is not happening.
 
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milemission

New member
Yes, if I had to guess, I would guess the workplace had a no guns allowed policy (and probably violated state law by specifically banning guns from employees' vehicles in the parking lot as well). Unfortunately, I also work at one of those places, and many employers in KY violate state law by not allowing firearms on company property (including the parking lot), while KY law states that despite a no guns policy, employees are allowed to have firearms in their vehicles. However, it is company policy that is more important for employment, obviously, as I think it's one of those laws that the state doesn't care to enforce.

However, if anybody says anything direct about it, it will be McCain. Obama isn't going to commit political suicide by admitting to the public at large that he is anti gun. After all, guns lost the White House for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004, and I've noticed that none of the Democratic candidates have really spoken on the issue (other than Hillary in commenting on Obama's statement about bitter people).

As far as November, KY is absolutely positively red. I'm more of a blue person myself on most issues, but I doubt if I'm going to vote for either of the two main candidates. I'm sick of the lesser of two evils.
 
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USAFNoDak

New member
If this has any impact, it will be about states forcing companies to allow weapons in cars, even if they don't allow them in their buildings. The story specifically states he retrieved his handgun from his car. This is one of those issues where a charlatain like Obama can say something to the effect of, "We must not allow the NRA to push for laws that stop companies from protecting their employees. Companies should be able to prohibit guns from their own, private properties. This should include guns in cars that are on company property. I am not against people owning guns, and I'm not anti gun. I am against the NRA making it impossible for companies to protect their own employees. They should be able to make their own policies on whether there should be any guns on their private property."

This will make it appear as if he is not anti gun, but is for private property rights. You know that would play well with the media and the mushy, moderate, middle. After all, it makes it appear that Obama is for gun rights and private property rights, all rolled into one. We know that's not really the case. He could give a rat's behind about gun rights. His past record demonstrates that, clearly enough. He is only "pretending" to support private property rights because in this specific instance, those private property rights have a direct affect on gun rights. It depends upon whose ox is being gored.

I tend to be on the red side of politics, if we're going to go by colors. But I doubt I could vote for McCain in good conscience. I couldn't vote for Obama unless he was running against a NAZI or a Marxist. Wait a minute. He is a Marxist. Forget that last part. :D
 
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toybox99615

New member
Swept under the rug

Both candidates are going to let this go under the rug for a while. For one thing it would be dumb for one of them to take a position just a day before the Heller case decision is released. To make a position and find the SCOTUS differs from you the next day would not be politically smart. Depending upon the Heller decision a candidates position after the decision could be beneficial to their campaign.
 
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USAFNoDak

New member
Now it seems they don't know where the gun was, at least from one of the AP stories.


It wasn't clear if the employee was carrying the gun, or if he retrieved it after the argument. Under Kentucky law, business owners are allowed to prohibit people from bringing weapons onto the premises.

"We don't know if the gun was in the car or if he went somewhere to get it," Henderson police Lt. David Piller said.


Associated Press writers Harry Weber in Atlanta and Bruce Schreiner and Rebecca Yonker in Louisville contributed to this report.
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The statement about business owners being allowed to prohibit people from bringing weapons onto the premises doesn't seem to be 100% accurate. Doesn't KY law allow gun owners to have guns in their cars even when in a company parking lot? I think the business owners can legally stop employees from bringing guns into their buildings, but cannot "legally" stop them from having guns in their cars on company property. I'm not sure if I'm 100% accurate on that.

I don't know what their legal options are if they wanted to fire an employee who was found to have a gun in their car against company policy. Or does state law in KY actually bar the company from having such a policy which would ban guns in cars on company property?
 
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Yellowfin

New member
Not to nitpick, but I don't know if I'd call 4 victims a "mass" shooting. Multiple, egregious, unfortunate, criminal, destructive, tragic, brutal, but not mass.
 
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USAFNoDak

New member
I think some churches ban guns so that there will not be "mass" shootings. :D

Well, that's what they believe, anyway. In reality, it's pretty hard to stop someone from committing a crime by having a policy and a sign telling them not to bring a gun into "mass".
 
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milemission

New member
Kentucky law does specifically state that gun owners are allowed to have their guns on the premises of an anti gun employer provided they do not bring said weapon into the workplace. However, having worked several jobs around Northern Kentucky, I have found that several employers do not follow that state law and prohibit guns in the vehicle in the parking lot as well. I do not know about the company's right to fire one for bringing a gun onto company property when they are specifically allowed by state law, but I would imagine that said companies aren't going to care much for state law, especially when they usually have the discretion to fire employees for any reason whatsoever. These companies aren't unionized, so really, that's what they are able to do is to fire employees for any reason. In order to get in trouble for firing an employee who brought a gun onto company property, one would have to prove that that is the reason the employee was fired.
 
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USAFNoDak

New member
That situation only exists because the state doesn't really care about gun owners rights. If they did, they'd uphold their own laws. I would doubt an employer could fire someone because the employer found out the employee was gay or had certain religious beliefs the employer didn't agree with. How would someone prove that is why they were fired? If the state upheld their own laws, this would have nothing to do with union vs. non union labor.
 
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azredhawk44

Moderator
This won't be an issue during the national elections because Kentucky is already red. Dems will piss of Kentucky and much of the South/Southwest by going after a gun issue.

If this shooting happened in a Blue or swing state, it would become a Lib talking point.
 
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Kreyzhorse

New member
Or does state law in KY actually bar the company from having such a policy which would ban guns in cars on company property?
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My understanding is that it is illegal for a company in Kentucky to bar an employee from keeping a gun in their car. While many companies may ban it, banning it and doing any thing about it are two different matters. With that said, Kentucky is also an "at will" employment state so you can pretty much be termed for any thing, or nothing, at any time.
 
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toybox99615

New member
how about some facts.

Like maybe one of the posters could provide the actual Kentucky law that either does or does not allow an employee to have a gun in their car at the place of thier employment without the approval of the employer. Until that is posted the two opposite opinions are just opinions and not a fact support by Kentucky law.
 
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Kreyzhorse

New member
Just the facts Ma'am...

Transportation of Firearms

No person or organization, public or private, may prohibit the keeping of a firearm or ammunition in a glove compartment of a vehicle in compliance with Kentucky Revised Statutes Annotated § 527.020(8). No person may prohibit a concealed deadly weapons licensee from possessing a firearm or ammunition in his or her vehicle, so long as the licensee is in compliance with sections 237.110, as amended by 2006 Ky. Acts 240, § 2 (which provides for the licensing of concealed weapons carriers) and 237.115 (which allows schools and universities to limit weapons on their facilities). Section 527.020(4).
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I placed the first sentance in "bold." The words have not been changed.

This is the direct link:

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/527-00/020.PDF

I believe the issue is covered in point 8. Additionally - point 8 also spells out the following.

Any attempt by a person or oganization, public or private, to violate the provisions of this subsection may be subject of an action for appropriate relief or for damages in a Circuit Court or District Court of competent jurisdiction.
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And finally, if Kentucky statues don't do it for you, I went to the authority on it, bradycampaign.org.

Here is what they have to say on the matter.

GUNS AT WORK
Are businesses forced to allow guns in the workplace? Yes

Kentucky - State law forces employers and businesses to allow guns on their privately held property. This dangerous law seeks to turn companies into criminals if they ban guns on their private property.
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Here is the link:

http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=KY

Now keep in mind that according to the Brady Campaign, Kentucky is ranked as the 49th worse state for gun control. However, it's a tie with another state. Perhaps, if we work a little harder, Kentucky can sit in 50th next year all by ourself.
 
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