http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200608/msg00087.html
Credible? Yes. Moreso than the contradictory claims made by BAA and TSA.
Credible? Yes. Moreso than the contradictory claims made by BAA and TSA.
Analysis of the liquid bomb plot
- Thread starter Coinneach
- Start date
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
Very interesting read, Coinnech.
When Reid smuggled explosives in his shoes, TSA began to have everyone remove their shoes at the molestation point. I joked if he had explosives packed inside his "darn near killed him," we'd all be grabbing our ankles for the TSA.
Now we're not allowed any liquids.
Seems like my joke isn't far from the truth.
I still say everyone on board should be issued a bayonet along with the mandatory barf bag and copy of skymall.
-Dave
When Reid smuggled explosives in his shoes, TSA began to have everyone remove their shoes at the molestation point. I joked if he had explosives packed inside his "darn near killed him," we'd all be grabbing our ankles for the TSA.
Now we're not allowed any liquids.
Seems like my joke isn't far from the truth.
I still say everyone on board should be issued a bayonet along with the mandatory barf bag and copy of skymall.
-Dave
Dave, you remember the rumour about female terrorists stuffing C-4 up their hoo-hahs, right? If that happened today, all the people yapping about "If it's to help fight terrorism, I'm all for it" would likely be changing their tunes after being forced to squat and cough every time they fly.
Mikeyboy, that's not what he said. He said that given the publicly available information, and his admittedly non-PhD level of chemical knowledge, it's unlikely that anyone could have made this work.
I've asked a friend of mine, a ChemE student at Cornell, to evaluate the article. Her conclusion was the same.
I've asked a friend of mine, a ChemE student at Cornell, to evaluate the article. Her conclusion was the same.
Uhhhhh, that's not a blog, that's a discussion group post. Biiiig difference there. For example, blogs are a horrible pox on humanity.
Discussion groups such as usenet aren't graphical with handy shiny buttons and whatnot, they're rather oldschool and most people aren't familiar with them.
Anyway, I'll pay attention to people rolling eyes when they can back it up with coherent paragraphs of data about why the guy is wrong in his position.
Discussion groups such as usenet aren't graphical with handy shiny buttons and whatnot, they're rather oldschool and most people aren't familiar with them.
Anyway, I'll pay attention to people rolling eyes when they can back it up with coherent paragraphs of data about why the guy is wrong in his position.
I'm not really surprised by this. As I understand it (please oh please let me be misunderstanding it) they tortured information out of detainees in Pakistan which (surprise) turned out to be less-than-accurate. They then arrested 24 people in Great Britain without charges on a case that's so thin that there's serious doubt that they will be able to hold them. The whole case is then placed on hold for 4 days either a) so the Brits can round up the perps or b) awaiting the outcome of the CT primary, depending on who you ask.
The entire TSA goes into an uproar, and every liquid suddenly becomes verboten for air travel, including the media's urine-soaked panties. And after the fact, it's somehow proof that scrawling all over the Constitution with crayons is keeping us safe.
Heh.
The entire TSA goes into an uproar, and every liquid suddenly becomes verboten for air travel, including the media's urine-soaked panties. And after the fact, it's somehow proof that scrawling all over the Constitution with crayons is keeping us safe.
Heh.
I'm sure that, sooner or later, they will succeed in blowing up an airplane.
At that point, this forum and several others will fill up with "why didn't the guv figure this one out?? It was so predictable.. I saw it coming a mile away..."
Keyboard quarterbacking is soooo simple.
At that point, this forum and several others will fill up with "why didn't the guv figure this one out?? It was so predictable.. I saw it coming a mile away..."
Keyboard quarterbacking is soooo simple.
Clanky, if it happens, some people will say that. On the other hand, some people will say "Why didn't the pax take the jackasses down when they started mixing things?" Then someone else will chime in with "If only we had better security and .gov could listen to everyone's conversation, this would have never happened!"
Keyboard quarterbacking, indeed.
Keyboard quarterbacking, indeed.
Chaingunner
New member
My favorite part is that they still provide LIQUID beverages for passengers...
..because THAT'S not possible to tamper with..
..because THAT'S not possible to tamper with..
Double Naught Spy
New member
Yep, it was a hunt intelligence flub that it was not known in advance that several airplanes would be hijacked on 9/11 and crashed into buildings. Sure, there were clues all over the place...for years...leading up to that event, and clues all over the place and for years that have led up to absolutely nothing.
In another thread going on right now, folks are upset because illegal foreigners are busted on suspicion of terrorism, in part because of having several hundred disposable cell phones. We all know that owning such items isn't illegal, but then again, neither is getting jumbo jet flight training that doesn't include anything other than basic flying after takeoff, basic navigation, basic instrument use, and no landing training, and yet folks scream how the clues were all there, but we can't use those clues to stop people, apparently, because it violates their rights and we will protest such rights violations, but that won't stop us from complaining about them not being stopped if they do something bad.
In short, the governments can't win the PR campaign on this stuff unless they catch/stop the bad guys just before the light fuses or start chem reactions or start to hijack a plane without any of the good guys and bystanders being harmed. Then somebody will complain the government let things go too far, thereby endangering the public by not stopping the bad guys sooner, before they had a chance to be in public with dangerous materials. This liquid bomb business fits. The gov. acted too soon, the British gov, and so we don't really believe there was any real threat, think the case is thin, feel their rights may be violated, yaddy yaddy yaddy.
In another thread going on right now, folks are upset because illegal foreigners are busted on suspicion of terrorism, in part because of having several hundred disposable cell phones. We all know that owning such items isn't illegal, but then again, neither is getting jumbo jet flight training that doesn't include anything other than basic flying after takeoff, basic navigation, basic instrument use, and no landing training, and yet folks scream how the clues were all there, but we can't use those clues to stop people, apparently, because it violates their rights and we will protest such rights violations, but that won't stop us from complaining about them not being stopped if they do something bad.
In short, the governments can't win the PR campaign on this stuff unless they catch/stop the bad guys just before the light fuses or start chem reactions or start to hijack a plane without any of the good guys and bystanders being harmed. Then somebody will complain the government let things go too far, thereby endangering the public by not stopping the bad guys sooner, before they had a chance to be in public with dangerous materials. This liquid bomb business fits. The gov. acted too soon, the British gov, and so we don't really believe there was any real threat, think the case is thin, feel their rights may be violated, yaddy yaddy yaddy.
A couple of years ago I learned that some Palestinian developed a liquid explosive in Eastern Europe (Rumania perhaps?). An Israeli said that it would take only 330 grams (think the size of a soda can) to take out a jet flying at 30k feet. The elements were kept separate until ready to use and would be mixed when needed.
About a year after I learned this, some Saudis did a trial run by hoarding the bathrooms aboard several flights. Their conduct was reported to the FBI and they were detained, questioned and released. That they didn't have any dirt but the rest of us were still suspicious of their "musician" covers.
Trial runs can be conducted by clean people who report back to leaders who then designate others to carry the mission.
So, as to the concern of the Brits and our own TSA, I would concur heartily with them... and I hate the TSA too.
About a year after I learned this, some Saudis did a trial run by hoarding the bathrooms aboard several flights. Their conduct was reported to the FBI and they were detained, questioned and released. That they didn't have any dirt but the rest of us were still suspicious of their "musician" covers.
Trial runs can be conducted by clean people who report back to leaders who then designate others to carry the mission.
So, as to the concern of the Brits and our own TSA, I would concur heartily with them... and I hate the TSA too.
What's your point? I have a customer at work who claims he helped intercept suitcase nukes that where being smuggled into the country in the 1970's by the Russians. He also claims to have been in the CIA, FBI, NSA and other government agencies. He believes that all our current terror problems happened because he and his co-workers retired. He lives in the same building as my grandma so I see him quite a bit.
DonR101395
New member
Possibly that it doesn't matter what anyone does especially the govt. someone will throw stones and say either they didn't do enough or they did too much. It's a no win for them in the court of public opinion.