An Armed Society is a Polite Society

[Cascade1911]

An Armed Society is a Polite Society.
Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
Robert A. Heinlein

In the thread "Unarmed Cops in Britain...... no respect" http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451040
BlueTrain Said the following:

In my experience, armed people are often anything but polite. One could even come to that conclusion merely from reading this forum.

As forums go this one is very civil. Forums on the internet I believe give proof to Heinlein's statement. I see people talk to each other in ways they would not dare to in a face to face conversation because of the fear of getting a broken nose. Unfortunately, as people become less sensitive online, real-world communications seem to degenerate.

For me, when I carry, I do become more deliberate in my speech and actions, not because I'm fearful of violence done to me but because of the violence I may have to do to another if I let a situation get out of control.

Thoughts?

 

[Bud Helms]

Thoughts?

Welllll, ...

A response to a post in another thread might be better made in that thread, but it seems that you are saying is the conduct of a poster on an internet bulletin board may not be an accurate way to gauge how that same person would behave in person.

Probably true. I do agree with a rise in the general coarseness of interchange these days. Watch TV.

I believe that these days people are not taught how to act in the company of strangers. They do things, say things, that they would not tolerate from others. When called on it, they make excuses.

Learning how to carry responsibly (in the company of strangers) is a weighty responsibility and calls for skills that are not routinely taught, or at least learned, today.

In other words, "A responsible society is a polite society."

 

[Tyrant]

I act no differentaly with or without a firearm in terms of dealing with confrontation. I think how one conducts himself in a confrontational situation should reflect the intention to protect oneself at all costs, and provide the opportunity for the BG to gracefully dissengauge his aggression.

In my experience, armed people are often anything but polite. One could even come to that conclusion merely from reading this forum.

I feel quite the opposite in regards to this forum
To me, It's refreshing to see the debate civilized on an educated and proffesional level.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Nah, I don't buy it. Look at the old west. Certainly, it wasn't like the movies but there were plenty of armed people and plenty of shooting.

Just like there are plenty of jerks who pick fights with other jerks in the bars every weekend... because they think they can whoop anybody, there would still be thugs causing gun fights because they think they're better than everyone else.

Less common than simple bar fights? Surely, but much more consequential.

Polite people make a polite society. Most people now days are not polite. They pretend they are but when "the chips are down", or they're hiding behind a keyboard, they're not.

It's a societal epidemic actually. We "all" hate liars but most people lie when it benefits them. Most people hate thieves but they'll steal something when it benefits them, particularly if it's a "victimless" crime or the victim is a mega-corporation.

Society is experiencing cascading failures of ethics and politeness is only one more victim.

 

[BlueTrain]

I don't know that people are less civil or polite than they used to be and I am in my 60s. But that means I have no direct experience with the 1930s or earlier and my memory of the 1940s is just a little hazy. But some of my memories of the 1950s are still pretty vivid.

But there didn't used to be anything like internet forums. The closest thing was letters to the editor and sometimes they made interesting reading and still do. But the thing is, there is a lot more to communication than words and you miss those elements when posting here and on other forums, just as much as in letter writing. There is a saying, the best way to have a meeting of the minds is to have a face to face meeting.

Mind you, I don't think carrying a firearm or other weapon makes a person impolite, less than civil, arrogant or paranoid but it does seem like people like that do seem to carry guns more than others. There is sometimes confusion over cause and effect. Then, too, a given individual can be that way to some people and still be sweet as they can be to others. I saw that when I was still in grade school and I didn't understand it then and don't now. Some people are like that.

 

[Cascade1911]

A response to a post in another thread might be better made in that thread

It isn't a response, it is a new thread prompted by a statement made in another. I thought about raising the point in the other thread but decided it would be pulling the original post off topic.


To respond to peetzakilla I believe what we are looking at is a lack of consequences to actions. Nowadays the only stigma if you are caught cheating or lying or stealing is ridicule because you were caught. As far as "The Old West" have no idea what. I do know that in times past a single murder was sensational. Now, unless you live in the area, you won't even hear of it. Think of the Valentine's Day Massacre.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I think that those who are inclined to abide by laws will continue to do so, whether they are armed or not.

Those who are disinclined to abide by laws, or who routinely exhibit reckless, provocative, or belligerent behavior, will continue to do so, whether they are armed or not. (And are more likely to do so if they are drunk.)


I do think that most reasonable guys who carry, however, go out of their way to avoid a confrontation where they may need to pull their piece.

I base that conclusion mostly on national news reviews - given a nation-wide rise in CCW permits out there, if there were a huge amount of posturing, gun flashing, or other testosterone-based misbehavior by armed citizens, I would expect to see a lot more news stories about that type of behavior.

There is a percentage, sure. But I think most lawfully armed citizens (who have paid the fee, been fingerprinted, and gone through the process of obtaining a CCW) are - on the whole - pretty reasonable people.

Just my opinion.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

For me, when I carry, I do become more deliberate in my speech and actions, not because I'm fearful of violence done to me but because of the violence I may have to do to another if I let a situation get out of control.

Thoughts?

Sure, the Heinlein quote is from a fictional work with fictional parameters. As for your fear you may do to others, bad guys who are armed usuually don't have such constraints on their behaviors. As for letting the situation get out of control, when were you in control of it?

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The society in the Heinlein book where the quote comes from, was not a pleasant one. It was sort of genetically coded autocracy. Women had an inferior place for the most part. People who chose not be armed were looked down upon. So young toughs seemed to posture a bit. It wasn't fully presented as to how older folks were treated.

It did make the case for 1911s over ray guns. The main hero was in fact contemplating not carrying as he didn't like the gun toting bravado but was shamed out of it.

Heinlein threw out all kinds of fun ideas, like going back in time to visit your beautiful mom - :barf: or cloning yourself into two good looking twin girls and :barf: .

Being a superpowered human raised by Martians might have been fun though.

 

[SPEMack618]

And the Mobile Infantry seemed like a crack outfit....

 

[oldkim]

Internet forums...

So I belong to several forums...

One aspect many forget is that when responding or posting on a thread... your individual "thought" is not interrupted.

In a face or group discussion... someone can interrupt the speaker... call in question... in a forum... one can only respond to a post... which means one can spew all of their opinions and go off on one tangent or another before a response or someone trying to re-focus the discussion back onto topic.

Also the ability to hide behind a "screen" or "mask" also tempts folks to spew many "persona's" that one truly does not have...

Back on topic:
I do believe in the saying... "An armed society is a polite society."

As for some forums going to the "darkside." That's typically by several hard core members patrolling and spewing their negative persona... injecting their hard line linear thoughts... unchecked by the good folks. Bullies if you will.

As in regards to firearm safety... I believe everyone has a duty to put people in check...

 

[JerryM]

That did not seem to be the case in the old West. It also does not seem to be the case in the USA. In some areas where a lot of people are armed it is neither safe or polite.
Sounds good, but no basis in fact.

Jerry

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

After reading all the posts - the OP was not really firearms related but about Internet politeness. Thus, I judge that this is not an appropriate topic. We did start to discuss whether firearms made you polite but veered back into Internet manners.

So to avoid rambling on various topics not related to General, I regret I will close this one.

BTW, the Mobile Infanty in the movies - stunk! No real air, no armored suits, it made no sense. The MI in the book - they were the real deal as were the bugs who were techno also.

Bye all.