ammo question

[Diggers]

So I took my wife shooting and rented a 360PD, she is interested in the 642 and the 360 is as close as they came at the range.

My wife decided that the gun kicked too much for her tastes even though she was able to shoot it pretty well. I too noticed a lot of kick for non +P .38 special ammo and though it kind of odd but then I had never shot such a light gun before.

We were shooting Fiocchi ammo 130 grain FMJ .38 special. I went to their web site and they listed this ammo at 950 fps.

Wouldn't that be +P rated ammo?

 

[ursavus.elemensis]

There's not much difference in muzzle velocity between .38 Special and .38 Special +P. the .38 muzzle velocity is quoted as 940 and the +P is quoted as 1,000 feet per second. But the muzzle energy is 310 foot-pounds force in the .38 and 351 foot-pounds in the +P. So, the +P has about 13% more force. Also, the max pressure is 17,000 PSI for the .38 Special and 20,000 for the +P.

Source: HERE

Not a huge difference, and Police officers were able to bring down plenty of bad guys with .38 Special (not +P) for several generations before anyone ever heard of +P ammo. I've got a S&W 642 and it is a bit snappy, but there are so many benefits to that gun that they easily outweigh the snappyness. Also, compare the snappyness of a 642 to a .380 pistol and you'll see that the 642 is a lot better. Also, the 642 weighs about 25% more than the 360PD (I am pretty sure about that), and hence the 642 should be eaiser to shoot, less felt recoil. A friend of mine has a .380 and I considered getting one because my Sig P239 is a little heavy to carry around, but after shooting the .380 a few times I decided that I would never want to shoot it again.

One last thing: I've found with my 642 that doing a LOT of dry fire practice really pays off. I can learn to control the gun during trigger press, and learn to pull the trigger without flinching in expectation of the recoil. It makes a huge difference to have really good form in dry fire practice so that when you go to the range with live fire, it is much easier to control the gun and to use the gun effectively.

One other last thing: I ordered the Crimson Trace laser grips for my 642. I have them for my Sig and they make it much easier going in learning to hold the gun steady during trigger press, learning not to fear the recoil, etc. Dry fire practice with the Crimson Trace laser grips is an essentail part of learning to fire the gun. Even if I never see the laser dot in the event that I actually need to fire the gun for self defense, I will have benefitted enormously from the training aid of that laser. It's not cheap to purchase, but my life's worth it, I think.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Have you considered the 32 H&R Magnum ??? it is less loud to shoot, much less recoil, the gun holds 6 rounds instead of 5 rounds, & packs as much punch as a 38 special... IMO, it's perfect for anyone recoil or noise sensitive...

 

[Baba Louie]

With Newton's third law of physics being what it is, any airweight is going to result in some push back atcha. Proper grips might help diminish or spread out felt recoil to some degree. Sometimes the old saying "Less is more" is... uncomfortable.
I'd like to get a 431PD and try one out. Didn't Ruger make their SP-101 in .32 H&R Mag. for awhile? Heavier might prove to be better when shooting time comes around.

 

[werewolf]

Have you considered the 32 H&R Magnum ??? it is less loud to shoot, much less recoil, the gun holds 6 rounds instead of 5 rounds, & packs as much punch as a 38 special... IMO, it's perfect for anyone recoil or noise sensitive...

Who makes guns for this? Too many different calibers, I think.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I think currently both the S&W & Ruger guns are disconinued from new production, but I just bought mine NIB this last spring / summer... there are still lots of SP-101's & S&W J Frames ( both hammerless & with hammers )... mines an air weight, with hammer... around the shops & gun shows still, & the Federal Personal Defense ammo seems to have the power needed for personal defense... the gun is extremely easy to shoot well, & is nearly painless in recoil & in volume...

 

[Diggers]

Huh..... seems like there is a very wide range of fps for the .38 special from low 700s to mid 900s.

I guess the real way to tell +P from non +p is pressure, but I don't have a way to do that.

YES! I have thought of the .32 mag. I S&W was still making the light weight revolvers in .32 I would probably get one......but they aren't. I live in san diego and there really aren't very many places that have a lot of used guns for sale.
I do think its a very nice round for a small light weight snubie, and 6 shots are also a nice option. Just don't know why S&W droped them.

Ruger has .32 mags in their SP. in 4 and 3ish inch barrel on the web site, but that is a whole lotta gun for a .32 mag. Don't need ~ 27 or so oz for a .32 mag.

I guess I will look around here though to see whats out there.

 

[Elvishead]

We were shooting Fiocchi ammo 130 grain FMJ .38 special. I went to their web site and they listed this ammo at 950 fps.

Wouldn't that be +P rated ammo?

Fiocchi seems to load a little hotter. The 9mm 115g FMJ Velocity is rated at1250, and I beleave it, if not more. Good stuff.

 

[Diggers]

Yeah I read a post some where that said ammo makers from Europe load ammo to higher pressures then U.S. makers do.

My thought though is how do you know its safe for your gun? There are older NON +P .38s out there that may not deal well with the hotter load.

 

[massman]

Ammo question

I have a 360 PD and with 357 mags it kicked like a mule causing the trigger guard to hit my index finger which hurt like h@##. By changing the small grips to one size larger gives enough room to get your little finger on the grip. That gives you more control and avoids the trigger finger from getting smacked. With 38 spec and even +p it isn't bad at all. I like this gun as it is very light and easy to carry with any clothing.

 

[Qwiks draw]

There are 110 gr.JHPs standard pressure .38 Specials that would do well for defense and the 130 gr. made by Winchester are sedate movers. The military used to get stuck with FMJs for defense and that's what we had to qualify in the USAF if that's all they issued instead of a pistol. 130gr. Winchesters are what we had for ammo.

With the .32 H&R magnum there are 12 loads currently cataloged in the 2008 gun buyers magazines. 12 loads for the .32 S&W Long also. There's even several JHP loads.
Taurus makes current model 731 6 shot revolver for the .32 magnum.

As was said earlier there are Ruger SP101s and S&Ws used on the market.

The snubbies are specialist guns anyway. Harder to shoot then their larger brethren for many reasons.

More heft as in a heavier frame may help. Since recoil shy types need all the advantages to help them over come this more weight couldn't hurt. This way she could get here own revolver. Either a K frame size or even a 6 shooter the size of a Colt Detective Special and it's brethren.

Rossi makes the 461 and the 351. Taurus makes the 85 series or 851,651 series. S&W makes the model 60 or other heavier type revolvers.

So there's other choices. Ruger SP101 in .38 Special was hefty,accurate and dureable.

Last but not least are the .32 ACP and .380 caliber pistols if all else fails and the .22lrf pistols or revolvers are not considered adequate.

The female contingents may need exposure to NRA or local accredited basic courses that immerse them in a relaxed casual atmosphere. This can be one on one mentoring or a womens only style class. This exposes the gals to the various types of guns and safety rules in a secure and safe manner.

www.corneredcat.com and www.womenandguns.com are excellent sources for the women and men to learn much about firearms,training, and other pertinent data.

Who knows? The female partner may be good with something along the line of a S&W 908/3913 9mm. pistol or a Kahr K9/Mk9 and join the ranks of the regular shooters. 9mm. in that size and type pistol shoot easier in most ways than with the snubbie.

I had to stand aside and let others teach the wife and daughter the basics of shooting. No tension, no worries, and no expectations or egos to bruise.

Techniques, practice, and experience can be learned to deal with recoil.Just have to go about it right.