Ammo question for Leos

[Fer]

In my country the cops are taking away the hollow points from citizens that are legally carring a firearm. Now this is ilegal since there is no law against citizens carrying Hps, but that is another story.
The point is that recently I have become friends with a police Lt, I inquired about the issue and I was surprised that He was in favor of the practice of taking Hps away from citizens, in short His explanation was that they do not want to get shot with a Hollow point, so the more they take away the less HPs out there(stupid reasoning I think).
Still from what I have read there is more chance of surviving a Hp shot than surviving a shot from a FMJ, even if the Hps neutralizes(I dont mean kill, just stop on his tracks) the attacker more efectively than the FMJ, am I correct? if so then the cops here dont have a clue of what they are doing.

 

[OldCorp]

As an American LEO recently retired, I'll have to state that the practice of seizing certain types of ammo by a police agency is illogical, intrusive and ridiculous to the extreme.
From what you've related it sounds as if the situation is more about a powerful and possibly corrupt person's wishes and desires than anything related to officer's safety. It would be much more beneficial to put comparative time, effort and funds into elavating the training of your officers than pursuing such a ridiculous policy.

 

[btolliverjr]

Yeah, because if I lived there and the cops took my hp's, I wouldn't go buy more! LOL. How rediculous

 

[Wagonman]

Thank God we live in the USA.

Hide your ammo.

If this were to happen here that would be the start of the revolution

 

[KyJim]

To answer your question, I know of no study showing hollow points being less lethal than full metal jacket ammo. It is possible that any particular shot might under penetrate in a hollow point load and a person might survive for that reason. However, as a whole, I think modern hollow points adequately penetrate so that they are more lethal than FMJ loads. This is for 9mm and up.

For loads less powerful than 9mm (.380, .25 acp), penetration is more critical and hollow points may indeed be less lethal. I again know of no study that shows this but base this on testing on ballistic gel.

 

[scorpion_tyr]

Still from what I have read there is more chance of surviving a Hp shot than surviving a shot from a FMJ

I'm not that educated when it comes to rifle ammunition, but in handgun ammunition this statement is not true at all. HP's make a bigger hole. The bigger hole means more blood comes out. Gun shot wounds kill people in two ways: loss of blood or a direct hit to the central nervous system. So if the bullet is bigger around then you get more blood loss and a slightly better chance to hit the CNS.

I'm very grateful that I live in a country where I don't have to worry about LE taking away my bullets any time soon. My advise would be to stash some HPs somewhere safe and keep a clip or two of FMJ's on ya in case your HP's get taken away. Just make sure you don't do anything that would get ya in trouble.

 

[kraigwy]

Still from what I have read there is more chance of surviving a Hp shot than surviving a shot from a FMJ

I retired after 20 years in LE. One of my jobs was Patrol CSI. In CSI we attended serveral autopsys. A lot of gun shot wounds. I noticed the more tissue damage in general means less chance of survival. Since HPs cause more tissue damage the FMJs, I noticed the above statement is totally wrong.

This is also the reason most states (if not all) outlaw the use of FMJ bullets while hunting. Reasoning being, Soft point (or hollow point) expanding bullet provide for a more human kill then that of FMJ. There is less chance for the animal to crawl off, suffer and die later.

 

[armsmaster270]

This is happening in the U.S. also The State of New Jersey outlaws H.P. ammo to all but current LEO's when you retire you lose the right to carry H.P. ammo. It's stupid but law there.

 

[kraigwy]

The State of New Jersey outlaws H.P. ammo to all but current LEO's when you retire you lose the right to carry H.P. ammo.

I'm not sure that law would float if a retired cop was carrying under HR218.

 

[Don P]

And this is why I choose not to live in a 3rd world country.

 

[sawrecker]

The USA is a great place to live. Hey wait, didn't we outlaw black talons because they kill so well? Or how about the armor piercing because they kill Leo's?

 

[MHbushmaster]

They can have your bullets but not your ammo.

When one group of people completely tramples on another groups liberties in the sake of "safety" or the "greater good", you can rest assured to know that it is indeed Tyranny.

 

[csmsss]

In my country the cops are taking away the hollow points from citizens that are legally carring a firearm. Now this is ilegal since there is no law against citizens carrying Hps, but that is another story.

I'm curious - under what context is this happening? How are the police identifying those carrying firearms, then stopping them and inspecting the firearms for the "offending" hollow point cartridges? I'm not understanding the mechanics/logistics of this.

 

[Webleymkv]

Actually, FMJ's are just as deadly as hollowpoints, HP's just work faster. a deep, narrow puncture wound like that created by a FMJ is much harder to treat should it become infected and you'll still have blood loss with the FMJ.

This is happening in the U.S. also The State of New Jersey outlaws H.P. ammo to all but current LEO's when you retire you lose the right to carry H.P. ammo. It's stupid but law there.

If I'm not mistaken, I think it's legal to have JHP ammo in your home in NJ, you just cannot CCW with it.

The USA is a great place to live. Hey wait, didn't we outlaw black talons because they kill so well? Or how about the armor piercing because they kill Leo's?

Black Talons are still perfectly legal. Winchester still uses the same bullet minus the Lubalox coating in both their Ranger and Supreme SXT lines and their Platinum Tip Hollowpoints are very similar. The Black Talon was discontinued by Winchester due to the negative media attention, not because they were outlawed.

 

[Fer]

I'm curious - under what context is this happening? How are the police identifying those carrying firearms, then stopping them and inspecting the firearms for the "offending" hollow point cartridges? I'm not understanding the mechanics/logistics of this.

This usually happens when you are on the road and there is a police check point(this is regular and the police put up check point in different places each day, you never know where they will be).
If they stop you and ask if you carry a firearm and you are legally carrying then they ask for the gun and permit, if you have HPs, they will state it is Ilegal some will say it is the law, if you confront them and ask what law they will comeup with something stupid like this: (I heard this one my self " It is ilegal for the private citizen to carry explosive ammo" In spanish Hollow point bullet is translated Bala Expansiva Ignorant people long ago began calling Hp Bala Explosiva this translates to Explosive bullet. Even if You try to explain what a HP is it is no use, all this time they have your weapon and there is a chance that if you give them a hard time they will take the gun just to make your life worst, so you end up leaving the ammo taking your gun and finishing your trip)

I know it sucks!!! but there is still hope. There are some advantages here, for example if you have a permit it also serves as a conceal carry permit. If you brandish without intention there is no concequence some others I will mention later.

 

[OldCorp]

Order some 'PowerBall' (Federal?/CorBon?). Looks just like ball ammo, and they couldn't tell the difference. Performs like JHP.

 

[ActivShootr]

Put a couple of FMJ's as the first two rounds in your mag. Upon initial inspection, it will appear you have a magazine loaded with FMJ ammo.

 

[Wagonman]

I wouldn't fool around, this is a different place with different laws. If they say FMJ then I would carry FMJ. I am not sure there is a constitutional guarantee of HC. I wouldn't feel underarmed with .45 FMJ if that was the law of the land.

Is there a mechanism for changing laws in your country?

 

[inSight-NEO]

I am not LE, but I was perusing this thread and came upon this:

The State of New Jersey outlaws H.P. ammo to all but current LEO's when you retire you lose the right to carry H.P. ammo. It's stupid but law there.

Now, I dont live in NJ and am completely unfamiliar with their handgun laws. However, I have heard of outlawing HP ammo before and cannot, for the life of me, understand the reasoning here. I mean, FMJ ammo will kill just the same as HP (JHP) ammo. Plus, there is the penetrative nature of FMJ vs JHP..for the most part. Is this never considered by those who are anti-JHP?

Its almost as if these people are saying,"You may use ammo that can kill, but you may not use ammo that can kill as quickly." What exactly is the mindset here? I just dont get it. Enlighten me. Personally, I think these people should actually try bothering to educate themselves about guns/ammunition before making rash, ridiculous decisions regarding such matters.

BTW- Its not just the NJ thing Im perplexed by; its ANY such law within ANY state. It almost seems as if all of this "anti-JHP" stuff is so prevalent simply because (based on what Ive gleaned so far) there is more JHP in use these days (not just LE, but criminal and civilian), thus there is more documentable evidence regarding its effectiveness.

 

[ActivShootr]

I forget some members "ain't from 'round here". As Wagonman suggests, respect your local laws.