I am just beginning to get into handguns and have run through a few thousand rounds at the range this year, but I guess I still have alot to learn about shooting and handling handguns. I had a situation occur that I have never experienced and I did not know exactly what to do. I had a cartridge misfire, as in the primer was struck but it did not discharge. What is your next move in this sutuation? Can the cartridge have a delayed discharge? How do you safely handle the cartridge?
Ammo misfire, whatya do?
- Thread starter texdawg
- Start date
I was instructed to keep the weapon pointed at the target, downrange for at least 5 seconds and then perform the following (while pointed in a safe direction):
1) Mag out
2) Rack slide
then:
3) Retrieve cartridge
4) Check for normal firing pin impression
5) If the impression is light or otherwise abnormal, remove slide and check firing pin assembly for damage
6) If firing pin impression is normal, try a new cartridge from the same box
I was told NOT to try to fire the same 'dud' centerfire cartridge again (although I have done this with .22 rimfires where I can load the cartridge into the mag so that the firing pin will not strike the same area on the rim as before. But technically, I suspect many here would say we shouldn't even do that.
1) Mag out
2) Rack slide
then:
3) Retrieve cartridge
4) Check for normal firing pin impression
5) If the impression is light or otherwise abnormal, remove slide and check firing pin assembly for damage
6) If firing pin impression is normal, try a new cartridge from the same box
I was told NOT to try to fire the same 'dud' centerfire cartridge again (although I have done this with .22 rimfires where I can load the cartridge into the mag so that the firing pin will not strike the same area on the rim as before. But technically, I suspect many here would say we shouldn't even do that.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Curse, wait a little bit, then shuck it out of the gun.
I believe it can have a slight delay on firing (i.e. 1-2 seconds), not long. Wait about 30 secs with the weapon pointed down range just to be safe, then drop the mag, pull the slide back open. Examine the back of the round to see if the primer has been struck. Compare it to other spent cases. If the strike looks light or at an angle, then the gun has a problem. If it is the same as the spent casings then it is an ammo related failur.
Keep it simple, if you're firing an auto, cock the hammer and try it again. If it doesn't fire, cycle the action and continue. If it occurs more than once, check for a problem. The most common problem in autos is a piece of metal in the blocking the firing pin hole. This is usually caused by over pressure loads. If not, then you probably have a more serious problem. While it is technically possible to have a hang-fire, in 25 years I have never seen or heard of anyone having one.
Dreadnought
New member
Do NOT attempt to re-fire a dud round
AMMO IS CHEAP
AMMO IS CHEAP
BerettaBuckeye
New member
Why?
You definitely should keep it pointed in a safe direction for several seconds.
At the same time, there's always the possibility this could happen in a self defense encounter and, if so, you don't want to start counting to 30 before you chamber a new round.
If you want a drill to practice reacting to FTFs, you could have someone else load your mags and have them randomly put some snap caps in. When you get just a click, try to chamber a new round and get back on target as quickly as possible.
At the same time, there's always the possibility this could happen in a self defense encounter and, if so, you don't want to start counting to 30 before you chamber a new round.
If you want a drill to practice reacting to FTFs, you could have someone else load your mags and have them randomly put some snap caps in. When you get just a click, try to chamber a new round and get back on target as quickly as possible.
Edward429451
Moderator
Yeah, Why? Enquiring minds wanna know. And what about all the DAO afficiandos who say DAO is good because if you get a dud you can tap it a second time. Is they wrong?
Well, I never asked why not to restrike the dud round, but I can come up with a few suspicions why:
1) Upon second strike of a centrefire cartridge, the firing pin may be afforded extra forward movement by the indentation on the primer. Depending on the weapon type and the depth to which the primer was first struck, this may be similar to a dry-fire. (I'm guessing here, feel free to tell me I'm talking bollox)
2) If the cartridge is removed and then replaced, it may end up chambered so that the firing pin impression on the primer is no longer lined up with the firing pin (slightly eccentric firing pin strike). Upon second strike there may be unusual stresses placed on the firing pin if it strikes the original impression on the edge and then glances into the original impression. In Glocks, the firing pin drag on the primer may be impeded if the second strike drags at 90 gegrees to the first one. (I'm guessing even more now)
3) The nature of the 'dud' has not been ascertained if the shooter merely attempts to restrike. Depending on the situation, there may be other faults to do with that cartridge which could cause damage or abnormal discharge of that cartridge. For instance, it would be a great shame if you ended up with a weak load and a bullet stuck in the barrel. Or some kind of failure related to an insecure primer upon second strike.
Generally I would agree with the previous poster who said ammo is cheap... it is, compared to the cost of the gun and the safety of oneself and other range users.
1) Upon second strike of a centrefire cartridge, the firing pin may be afforded extra forward movement by the indentation on the primer. Depending on the weapon type and the depth to which the primer was first struck, this may be similar to a dry-fire. (I'm guessing here, feel free to tell me I'm talking bollox)
2) If the cartridge is removed and then replaced, it may end up chambered so that the firing pin impression on the primer is no longer lined up with the firing pin (slightly eccentric firing pin strike). Upon second strike there may be unusual stresses placed on the firing pin if it strikes the original impression on the edge and then glances into the original impression. In Glocks, the firing pin drag on the primer may be impeded if the second strike drags at 90 gegrees to the first one. (I'm guessing even more now)
3) The nature of the 'dud' has not been ascertained if the shooter merely attempts to restrike. Depending on the situation, there may be other faults to do with that cartridge which could cause damage or abnormal discharge of that cartridge. For instance, it would be a great shame if you ended up with a weak load and a bullet stuck in the barrel. Or some kind of failure related to an insecure primer upon second strike.
Generally I would agree with the previous poster who said ammo is cheap... it is, compared to the cost of the gun and the safety of oneself and other range users.
Odd Job's advice is spot on! If you're at a range, there might be a range officer there to help you out as well. By no means pull the trigger again until you know what went wrong. If you had a "squib" and the bullet was still in the barrel, trying to fire again without clearing the barrel could hurt buth you and the handgun.
There is absolutely no reason not to try to fire the round a second time. Nothing unsafe about it nothing risky, nothing.
Okay, you are talking bollox. The firing pin can only move forward within the physical constraints of the design of the firearm. Also, in 98% of modern firearms dryfiring is not the least bit harmful to the weapon.
Firing pins are usually made of hardened steel. Primer cups are made of soft metal because they are designed to dent easily. That is what ignites the priming compound. Again, a non-issue.
If the primer doesn't ingite, you cannot have a squib load or a bullet stuck in the barrel. There is nothing unsafe about a round that has not discharged.
I don't believe in giving advice on a subject that I am not educated or qualified to advise on. Obviously not everyone feels that way.
Texdawg, don't let all this garbage scare you. Just cock the hammer and attempt to fire the round again. If it doesn't go off, dump it and try the next round. If the next round doesn't go off, check the pistol for an obstruction in the firing pin hole.
Okay, you are talking bollox. The firing pin can only move forward within the physical constraints of the design of the firearm. Also, in 98% of modern firearms dryfiring is not the least bit harmful to the weapon.
Firing pins are usually made of hardened steel. Primer cups are made of soft metal because they are designed to dent easily. That is what ignites the priming compound. Again, a non-issue.
If the primer doesn't ingite, you cannot have a squib load or a bullet stuck in the barrel. There is nothing unsafe about a round that has not discharged.
I don't believe in giving advice on a subject that I am not educated or qualified to advise on. Obviously not everyone feels that way.
Texdawg, don't let all this garbage scare you. Just cock the hammer and attempt to fire the round again. If it doesn't go off, dump it and try the next round. If the next round doesn't go off, check the pistol for an obstruction in the firing pin hole.
atlctyslkr
New member
I can see this thread is going to get testy real quick. Me, I count to 20 and get the round out of the gun and in a safe spot. If outside/private land I take it home and soak it in a glass of water before throwing it out. If at a range, turn in to RO. Why take an unecessary risk? Just dispose of it!
Train like you're gonna fight. If you're shooting a DA auto that allows you a second strike squeeze the trigger again.
If you're shooting a Glock other pistol that requires slide movement to reset the trigger, just reach up and shuck the offending round and continue shooting.
If you're shooting a Glock other pistol that requires slide movement to reset the trigger, just reach up and shuck the offending round and continue shooting.
BerettaBuckeye
New member
I don't know about you but I can certainly tell the difference between a squib and a round that did not go off. Over many years I have had a handful of rounds fail to ignite and every one ( as far as I can remember ) ignited as designed the second time. I also dry fire my centerfires without a "snapcap"
regularly so I guess I'm not worried about any firing pin issues either. To each his ownFor what it's worth I've read the 80% of FTF fire on the second strike. That's why some people prefer double action. So there should be no harm in trying to fire the same round again. If you've already ejected it I would't re-load it in there, but even that probably isn't dangerous.
LE training trick; At the range; allow 30 seconds or so, keep it pointed down range and try to fire again. If it still doesn't fire, then "tap and rack", then shoot. In a self defense situation, don't wait; "Tap and Rack" ASAP, front sight, Trigger, shoot. If you hold the gun in your right hand, tap the clip hard (w/left hand) to ensure that it is seated, then with your left hand grasp the slide overhand, rack it back and let it slam foward, picking up a fresh round and kicking out your dud. Tap/Rack will become 2nd nature if you work at it.
Wait 60 seconds is what i learned when i took the course. Otherwise who knows what could happen?
Do you really have to dispose of it though? Or turn it in to the R.O?
I mean if it doesn't fire, should you just leave it on the range floor or actually tell somebody of authority about it?
Another Q; I have a Sig 220 but am just familiar with the regular operations of it; load mag, rack the slide, fire until slide locks, insert new mag, pull slide back and let it slam forward, commence firing.
But if you were to:
-cock the hammer back without racking the slide, would it still fire? (I highly highly doubt it just making sure)
-if you bring the hammer forward with the lever on the side and then pull the trigger while it is in the "up" position, will it fire?
Do you really have to dispose of it though? Or turn it in to the R.O?
I mean if it doesn't fire, should you just leave it on the range floor or actually tell somebody of authority about it?
Another Q; I have a Sig 220 but am just familiar with the regular operations of it; load mag, rack the slide, fire until slide locks, insert new mag, pull slide back and let it slam forward, commence firing.
But if you were to:
-cock the hammer back without racking the slide, would it still fire? (I highly highly doubt it just making sure)
-if you bring the hammer forward with the lever on the side and then pull the trigger while it is in the "up" position, will it fire?
chris in va
New member
The standard P220 is a decocker DA/SA gun. If you cock the hammer and pull the trigger, it'll fire. Decock the hammer using the 'lever' as you put it, pull the trigger...it'll fire. It's always ready.
Now if you just insert a full mag without racking the slide and pull the hammer back, there's nothing in the pipe and it won't fire if you pull the trigger (but NEVER trust that logic...The Gun Is Always Loaded).
As for dud rounds, most decent ranges have a little can or ammo box you stick it in. Just ask the RO where it is. I'm not gonna claim any official knowledge about hitting a dud again, I usually try it and sometimes it goes off.
The 220 is a great gun. I'm wearing one right now actually.
Now if you just insert a full mag without racking the slide and pull the hammer back, there's nothing in the pipe and it won't fire if you pull the trigger (but NEVER trust that logic...The Gun Is Always Loaded).
As for dud rounds, most decent ranges have a little can or ammo box you stick it in. Just ask the RO where it is. I'm not gonna claim any official knowledge about hitting a dud again, I usually try it and sometimes it goes off.
The 220 is a great gun. I'm wearing one right now actually.
To address the original question, there are several problems you can have with ammo. The first two are a misfire and hangfire. A hangfire is common in muzzleloading and it is where you have a perceptable delay between when the primer is struck and when the round goes off. The problem is that only time will tell you whether you have one or the other.
For muzzleloaders, they often talk about 30-60 seconds to wait before taking the next step. If it hasn't gone off in a minute, you probably have a misfire. For most modern ammunition, hangfires are uncommon and the delay is usually minimal.
You did not mention whether you are talking about a centerfire cartridge or a rimfire cartridge. Misfires are more common with rimfire ammo and can often be fired by a second try or by simply rotating the cartridge and trying to fire it again.
Finally, it should be noted that the misfired round may be much more sensative to detonation due to the compessed primer mechanism. Consequently you may want to handle the round a little more carefully and dispose of it. I would not toss it in my ammo can with my other rounds.
For muzzleloaders, they often talk about 30-60 seconds to wait before taking the next step. If it hasn't gone off in a minute, you probably have a misfire. For most modern ammunition, hangfires are uncommon and the delay is usually minimal.
You did not mention whether you are talking about a centerfire cartridge or a rimfire cartridge. Misfires are more common with rimfire ammo and can often be fired by a second try or by simply rotating the cartridge and trying to fire it again.
Finally, it should be noted that the misfired round may be much more sensative to detonation due to the compessed primer mechanism. Consequently you may want to handle the round a little more carefully and dispose of it. I would not toss it in my ammo can with my other rounds.