American Traitors?

J

Jeff Thomas

New member
In spite of my best efforts, and even though I rarely find the word useful, I am having trouble not calling up the term "traitor".

As I watch the inane American demonstrations supporting the Palestinians, even while recognizing the tiny minority these demonstrators represent, it seems to me they are certainly American traitors.

Palestinians cheered on September 11 when thousands of Americans were massacred. Bin Laden used the Israeli / Palestinian conflict as one excuse for his attacks. Palestinians argue that suicide bombers who incinerate 2 year old children in their strollers are not terrorists ... or if they are, the Israeli army is as well. Palestinian savages have been murdering Americans for years ... and I have little doubt we'll see more of their activity on American soil -- I believe Netanyahu warned of this just the other day. Sadly, it seems too logical -- how could anyone doubt these animals will continue their predation?

Radical Palestinians are so obviously cut from the same bolt of cloth as other, murderous, savage Muslim extremists.

So, are there many of you out there viewing Americans who empathize with savage Palestinians in a new light ... as traitors? Between this and gun bigotry, there isn't much respect left in me for American leftists, no matter how "intellectual" they sound. And, the way things are going, I wouldn't put it past them to begin showing some creative indications of outright anti-Semitism, even in America ... especially interesting, since leftists often accused "conservatives" of the same malady.

Regards from AZ
 
P

paratrooper

New member
I have always been of a mind that people should leave that crap where it was . Back in New York City I grew up with a lot of Irish . They called themselves "Irish-Americans" . Most of them left the Black and Orange stuff back there and came here for a better life . Some of them went to parties at Paprins (Woodside Queens) where donations were solicitated for the "Cause" . They drank Patty's Irish whiskey and listened to Irish Rovers wannabees and talked about the "auld sod" . The Greeks and the Turks had their neighborhoods and never the twain met . We as Germans had our neighborhoods and Polka bars and tried to get along .
It seems however that people want to bring their causes here to get airtime . Perhaps this will gain sympathy for their cause . If you notice many of the signs held up in other countries during protests are in English . This is an effort to suck you into their realm and show you the brutality of XXX and the peace loving nature of YYY . Not to mention you will be aware of their plight when approached for a donation "for the children" . When you donate "for the children" you will guarantee your children the opportunity to donate to the children of the next generation because they will STILL be fighting .
We need 2 hard and fast rules . #1. We stay out of the affairs of others . #2. We do not allow people to bring their problems here . If they are so worried about what is going on in XXXX they should stay there and help with a cure .
 
K

Kaylee

New member
Treason is giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

I don't believe we're at war with the Palestinians, ergo sympathizing with their cause isn't treason. Heck, most of the 9/11 guys were Saudi, right? Which means we should get a rope for Bush I, as I see it.

That said, I'm with paratrooper. Let's pick up our toys and go home, rather than making enemies in every quarter of the world.

-K
 
B

bullet44

New member
"We need 2 hard and fast rules . #1. We stay out of the affairs of others . #2. We do not allow people to bring their problems here . If they are so worried about what is going on in XXXX they should stay there and help with a cure ."

Well said and if we don't start acting and
thinking this way fast America will become
so fragmented we will become like so many
places they try to leave.
 
L

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
I duuno, Jeff.

Most, if not all the pro-Pal demos I've seen regards in-US has been at the "centers of higher learning." :rolleyes:

Doubtful that many, if any, have studied the history of the area & what's the issues at all. I'd think that most are doing the "yea! for the underdog" thing. "Useful idiots" comes to mind (& I'd say that no matter which "side" they chose).

I couldn't call 'em traitors as they (most likely) don't have the slightest clue & I see traitors as being with "foresight" & then "malice." (if that makes any sense)

More than likely, some "leader-type" has riled 'em up & got a few "cheerleaders" to go along with his ride. Nothing new for any group all-in-all.

---------

To segue somewhat (quite a bit actually), I see similar activities in our own "pro-gun" groups. We'll have those that pay their $25/yr to some pro-gun group & then allow the "leaders" to call all the shots.

Mailings, e-mail, what-have-you (from a "leader-type") will decide, for that whole organisation, how those members will vote (or pressure their legislators, etc.).

Few will actually examine the issue, inform themselves enough to actually form any opinion whatsoever - if they're not educated as to the issue, they're merely blindly following the asperations of the chosen "heavy" - & from my perspective, have no business even participating at all.

& these follower-types, many times, are our "activists." Please save us!
 
S

Salt

Moderator
Johnny Walker Lindh came from these Leftists. His attraction to Islam came after reading MALCOM X thus he was drawn to its virilant anti-Western creed. This sort of thing is normal for left wingers consumed by their self imposed "white guilt" complexes.

I wonder how soon it will be that some red-pacifist "Weathermen" and "SLA" types will be helping Islamic terrorists to make more attacks on the West?
 
W

WyldOne

New member
They're not traitors.

They are using their First Amendment right to voice an opinion that differs from yours, but they are not traitors.
 
T

TheBluesMan

Moderator Emeritus
The Palestinians are at war with Israel. They have been at war with Israel for a long time.

Finally, Israel is responding as if they are in a war.

Radical Islamists are at war with America. They have been at war with America for a long time.

Finally, America is responding as if they are in a war.


Why is Bush calling for Israel to stop the fighting? Is Bush ready to stop the fighting in Afghanistan? The job is only half done in both places; now is not the time to stop fighting. That would be akin to invading Normandy in '44 and the next day, heading across the channel back to England.

Bush says we are in this war for the long haul. He needs to support Israel in doing the same.

I wonder what will happen when Tony Blair sends his troops into Belfast and pins down the IRA. They'll just be waging the war on terrorism on another front.

The PLO and the IRA have much in common. They both live in what they consider "occupied territory."
 
P

Paul B.

New member
Interesting post. I'm not exactly sure if they are committing treason, or sheer stupidity, or are just the result of our very left wing institutions of higher learning.
Now, considering some of the things Bill Clinton did during his tenure in office appear treaonous to me, I wonder why nothing was ever done about this?
I consider every act that violates the Constitution if the United States an act of treason. We are the strong country tyhat we are, because of that Constitution I include Schumer, Feinstien, Kennedy,Boxer, even deceased President Johnsom, Senators Dodd and Cellers all guilty of violation their oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
Countries like Russia and Red China have stayed out of our face because we are an armed population.
But back to the thread. When watching the talking heads in some of the news broadcasts, I almost get the feeling they are showing more support for the Palestinians than the Israelis. Just watch Peter Jenning for example. I haven't timed anything, but it feels like he gives more air time to the Palestinians that the Israelis. Might be interesting if somebody has a stopwatch to check that out.
Seems like the same treatment giver to anti-gunners VS pro-gunners. Well. What do you expect from those liberal jerks?
Paul B.
 
L

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
I'll agree with WyldOne here - to a point.

They are exercizing their 1st's rights to voice an opinion. Yes, & more power to 'em.

Only thing I'd ask - is do they actually have one (an opinion)? or are they merely "gettin' it on" to be in the streets & "being active?"

I seriously would be more comfortable knowing that those who yammer all day long actually had an opinion based upon an understanding of the issue/s at hand.

To segue again - The Brady Bunch gets to yammer :barf: to their hearts content - BUT!, we do have a constitution which describes the rule of law = what is allowed & what isn't.

Their right to yammer all day long should be allowed, & even encouraged. (Haven't many of us said that we would die to defend that right? I think that a good thing.)

However, their yammering should not influence, nor affect, the rule of law (constitution/BoR, anyone?) without going through the entire process of changing the fabric of our society (read that as amendment to the constitution).

In any event.

Yup, they get to o, say what they want & I wouldn't see 'em as traitors - hey're merely exercizing their freedom of speech - even if they have no idea as to what they're saying .....
 
K

Kaylee

New member
Section. 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Click to expand...

US Constitution, Article III, Section 3.


When one of the college punks picks up an AK and starts poppin' folks, all the while shouting "Allah is Great/Death to the Great Satan" after e-mailing back and forth with Arafat... well.. THAT might well be treason.

Protesting the cause d'jour and the local Institute of Higher Learning and Self Sufficency Avoidance... that's just kids bein' kids.

-K
 
W

Waterdog

Moderator
Though I may disagree with what you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it.

These people have the God given right to speak out against what they think is wrong, just like you do.

What makes you think you are right, and they are wrong?

I will say it again, the info you all are getting from the news media, is not credible. We as gunowners know the media will slant the info to favor their agenda.

IMHO

Waterdog
 
C

clem

Moderator
It appears that the world, as we know it, is dividing into one of "people of light" and one of "people of darkness". Sort of like the old World War II propaganda movies "Why We Fight". I suggest that you try and find these movies and review them.

As for speaking out and protesting............I will not speak for anyone who uses bombs as terror. And didn't these people cheer the destruction on 09/11/01?

You stand with America or you stand against it, no fence line crap.

Clem
USMC Retired
 
F

flinch_of_gt

New member
While the protestors have the right to express their views, the true danger lies in the message that the Palestinians get. If this current campaign of terror bombings causes Israel to give in to Palestinian demands, you can bet that they'll extend the campaign to U.S. soil.

Hint for the protestors: suicide bombers don't really care if you're pro-Palestinian or pro-Israel. If you're an American, they'll be more than happy to turn you into pink mist.
 
F

Fred Hansen

New member
Tell you what Waterdog, I'm going to ignore your sage advice and take the chance that the Great Media Conspiracy will cast my soul into hell for it.

My suspicion is that God will be unable to forgive me if I so much as hint at being able to "understand" where a person that commits suicide in order to be able to murder children, is coming from.

Somehow I think that God will have more say in the end than you, or the media.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
O

Oris

Moderator
They are f*cking traitors who use Bill of Rights to protect themselves. I bet at some moment in the future other people
will get too sick and tired of allowing those bastards to have so much fun.
 
W

WyldOne

New member
They are f*cking traitors who use Bill of Rights to protect themselves. I bet at some moment in the future other people
will get too sick and tired of allowing those bastards to have so much fun.
Click to expand...

Couldn't someone say exactly the same thing about gun owners?

Just because they don't share the same opinion as you does not make them traitors; it means that they have a different opinion than you do, and you know what? That's cool.

I sure wouldn't want to be stuck in a country where everyone was forced to agree with me. Would get kinda boring after....15 minutes or so.

labgrade,
Only thing I'd ask - is do they actually have one (an opinion)? or are they merely "gettin' it on" to be in the streets & "being active?"
Click to expand...

A good question. The thing is, not all protestors are alike. Some are extremely well versed in this issue, some are mildly versed in the issue, and some are just protesting to support, as Kaylee put it, the cause d'jour -- I will concede that that happens. Probably more often than I want to admit.

Here's a question that I'll be thinking about for a while: Does it matter if they actually have an individual opinion? Doesn't the First Amendment also protect herd-like speech/assembly?

And after all of the lies that the media spreads about gun owners, I must confess that I'm shocked that this community isn't more cynical about what the media does/does not report in this (and, probably other) issue.
 
J

John/az2

New member
The real traitors are sitting in Washington DC passing laws that will only effect the law-abiding, and continue to strip us of our freedoms one degree at a time.
 
J

Justin

New member
I'm going to have to back Wyld One up on this issue.
I think that the very fact that people are allowed to protest in such a manner acts as a good barometer of the current state of political discourse in the US.

If you want to stand up and shout about how much you hate Israel, and how much you love the Palestinians, have at it. I'm not going to stop you.

With regard to the level of intelligence exuded by these protestors; I honestly can't tell you because I honestly haven't met any of them.
Besides, I don't recall the US Constitution having a clause anywhere that prohibits morons and fools from exercising their rights.

Oris, no, those protestors are *not* traitors. They have just as much right to believe and voice their beliefs as you do, no matter how stupid, twisted, or just plain misinformed.
 
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