Am I the only Anti around here?

[Drjones]

Anti-mousegun that is...

Seriously, there is just no way in heck I would EVER carry anything smaller than .40. I just wouldn't do it.

I am NOT trying to bash anyone who does, nor would I want to get shot with a mousie, but I just look at it this way: no one will question the stopping power of a .45. The mere fact that there are some pretty serious questions as to the effectiveness of .25, .380, etc. should be reason enough to disregard them.

Yeah, yeah, you are all thinking "well, a .25 in the pocket is better than a 1911 in the safe..." but I protest: Shouldn't you change your dress to accomodate whenever possible??? I know it isn't always possible, but how about a snub .38, G27/26, kel-tec, etc.?

There are lots of pretty diminutive guns in pretty NON-diminutive calibers that are just as easily concealed as a squeaker pistol. G27/26, Kahrs and kel-tec, etc.

I just feel sorta bad for the people involved whenever I see mousegun threads.

Just felt like ranting a bit...

 

[Monkeyleg]

Many, many years ago I dissuaded a would-be assailant with a twelve-ounce beer bottle. In hindsight, a 32 ounce bottle would have been more threatening, but the twelve-ounce did the job.

 

[4V50 Gary]

I think you missed the point Monkeyleg. If you had one of those mouse size bottles like those that the airlines provide (@ $4 a shot no less), do you think you would have dissuaded the prospective assailant?

 

[AR-10]

.38 Special+P with a serious hollow point is the smallest round I am comfortable trusting in.

That said, I believe there is a statistic floating around that says more fatalities are produced with .22 rimfire than any other caliber.

Still and all, I'd rather have as much caliber as possible. If I knew I was going to be in a position that forced me to use a gun, I really don't think I would feel all that comfy with my .40 S&W.

.41 Magnum, .45 ACP, or .44 Magnum, maybe.
.308 would be more reassuring, twenty round mag.

 

[Drjones]

Actually, BOTH of you missed the point:

If you had to actually USE your tiiiiiny little one-ounce bottle, do you think it would be nearly as effective as my 40 oz. bottle of Mickeys???

There's a nice guy around here who's sig reads "Use enough gun."

I simply do not believe a mouse gun is even in the same book as "enough gun."

 

[freeride21a]

If you had one of those mouse size bottles like those that the airlines provide (@ $4 a shot no less), do you think you would have dissuaded the prospective assailant?

YES if it were traveling at 3400fps I bet it sure would!

 

[Drjones]

That said, I believe there is a statistic floating around that says more fatalities are produced with .22 rimfire than any other caliber.

Yes, and I've read that too, but:

a) How is it possible to measure such a statistic? (think world-wide)

b) I'll bet, and I think its true, that a VAST majority of those deaths were WELL-PLACED head shots. (Close-range assasinations/executions, which clearly skew the stats.)

YES if it were traveling at 3400fps I bet it sure would!

Well, obviously I don't want to get shot with even a BB gun, but that doesn't mean that I would use/carry it in SD!!!

I just got through reading this: http://www.cphv.com/ltlessons.htm which is what prompted me to post this thread.

Had the people had a 12ga or REAL gun available (over the pathetic .22) the situation might have come out more favorably.

Look; with a .45, .44, .357, etc. you are NOT taking a chance. (Or at least substantially increase your chances of success) With anything smaller, you ARE taking a chance. Why???

 

[AR-10]

Why?

That is a question easily answered.

Even with a .38 snubbie, I do not carry all the time. It is not always practical for me. With a small semi-auto in .32 or .25, I probably could.

Looking at that situation realistically, those that carry mouse guns all the time are better armed than I.

 

[Tamara]

...no one will question the stopping power of a .45.

I question the "stopping power" of everything smaller than .50 BMG.

I carry mouseguns in all different kinds of calibers, depending on the job; .25 mouseguns, .32 mouseguns, .44 Magnum mouseguns.

I have some non-mousegun guns, too; a Garand and an HK91. Kinda hard to CCW, tho...

 

[Drjones]

Right, but that's my point:

Perhaps you should fit your dress to your gun, instead of the other way around.

Also: I think most anyone could conceal a G27, Kahr or Kel-tec most ALL the time.

 

[Tamara]

I've kinda figured that out over the years.

I'll assume you don't wear dresses a lot.

Frequently, my .25 Jetfire is my second or third gun. What's yours?

 

[AR-10]

None of the guns you listed are truely back pocket guns.

The work that I do involves physical labor and close contact with the public. If I carried all day every day, the gun would have to be very small. Ankle carry would not cut it. Back pocket would be the only way. I weigh 145 lb. and wear size 32/32 jeans.

Small back pocket.

I do not own any handgun smaller than a .38, don't even carry a snubby smaller than a .357. The reason for that is I feel smaller calibers are a waste of my money. The downside is I often go unarmed.

I see your point, but still, any gun is better than no gun.

 

[silencer]

I believe that being able to put your rounds on target is much more important than the caliber of the round. A direct hit with a .22 is better than a near miss with a .50 BMG.

If a person can shoot accurately with a bigger caliber, great, but not everyone can. If I can put 6 rounds of .32 where they need to go, than that's what I would carry.

IMO, the caliber is only 1 of the numerous factors that decide the outcome of a self defense situation. The goal is to end the threat to your life, and whatever size round a person is proficient with is the proper one.

 

[priv8ter]

Mouse gun

Like most other people around here, I believe that the bigger the hole you can make, the better. I am confident that my .40(while not a .45 or .50 AE) can end any fight.

Butyou knew it was comming)

I am looking for a smaller gun or two right now. I can not carry a full size H&K all the time. I refuse to sweat that much in the summer. However messed up my mental assumptions are, I am confident that 95% of the time, anything bigger than a .22short can get the job done.

The only kind of confrontation that bothers me is dealing with someone who may be on some heavy drugs. I know some drugs out there can affect a persons nervous system to point where you need something that will shatter the skeletal structure to save your butt.

So, while I am looking at a P-11, or some kind of Micro .45, I am also on the lookout for P-32, and NAA Minis. While I will not always alter my clothing for carrying, it is my intent to carry as much as my clothing will allow.

My wife laughs at my plans for an IWB P-11, Back pocket P-32, and ankle holstered J-frame...someday though, I would like to be that guy.

Damn limited income.

 

[Pendragon]

I was shopping and touristing in Placerville today...

I was wearing some khakis and a T-shirt and I was carrying my 11month old son - who weighs at least 300lbs (says my lower back).

There is no way I could have carried anything bigger than one of the tiny .32s today.

I would have been happy to have a .25 or .32 rather than nothing. My biggest worry was from a few of the dogs I saw people walking - they were under control, but I wonder what would happen if a pit-bull wanted my boy for a snack?

I am not sure a .25 would work fast enough on a determined dog - perhaps I could shoot its owner? hmm.


Of course, the first rule of gunfighting is "have a gun". Thats often enough to make human predators think twice.

But animals do not generally respond to having a gun pointed at them. These days, with my little boy, I worry more about dogs than I do people.

Perhaps it is time to get a good knife...

 

[Pendragon]

oh - as to the .22 killing more people than any other round:

It stands to reason - it is the most common caliber and billions of rounds are produced each year.

However, do not confuse lethality with stopping power.

I imagine it would be possible to shoot a Grizzly with a .22 and have the bear die - the question is, would he die before or after killing you?

The .22 is good for killing - but I would not like to rely on it for fast stops.

 

[tyme]

drjones, please drop it. It's a personal decision - the 1911 at home vs the .38 you have IWB. The 9mm with a clear head shot at an assailant with 2 shots left vs the .40 with a forced reload and a potentially perforated skull. Or the fatal one-shot-stop from a .45 that wouldn't have been fatal with a .40.

No easy choices. You choose and you live with it, but nobody else can choose for you.

 

[Jamie Young]

I survived two violent confrontations in my life UNARMED. A mouse gun would have been helpful, but if I really wanted to engage my attackers, I would have needed an M16A2 and about 5000rds of ammo. Even in my situation, a 1911 with 3 mags, or a Beretta 92FS with 2, wouldn't have done me any good.

 

[old_yout]

Well, I sort of agree with the initial idea. I certainly don't feel as comfortable as I do when I'm out and can only carry my .38. It's not often that that's the case and I've seen to it that I dress so that I can carry my preferred 1911s. But when I've got something less I've found that I don't even shoot better with them. I have fewer rounds and reloading isn't as easy.
I'll concede that sometimes I can't carry what I want and do, grudgingly, carry something less than a .45. But I'm not happy when I do.

 

[Jesse H]

Perhaps you should fit your dress to your gun, instead of the other way around.

Because sometimes we want/need to dress nice. I usually carry a medium sized 9mm, spare mag, and folder *all the time* as long as I'm not at school, but there are times (at chuch, weddings, interviews, whenever I can't look sloppy) that I'd have to wear the PPK/S in a bellyband type setup.

I'm lucky that I have a CCW friendly body shape. I haven't really had to change my wardrome from pre-ccw...glad too because I don't like looking dorky.