Am I screwed? (Use of wrong primer)

[Mylhouse]

I know this post is going to draw the usual reprimands, but I just caught a screw-up on my part loading some .40s.

I was loading 155gr West Coast plated FP over 8.7 grains of Longshot (Hodgdon). The load isn't listed in the 2001 manual, but I received this data over the phone from one of the Hodgdon techs.
155 gr. FMJ-FP-----Longshot------COL: 1.125"
Starting load: 8.5 gr......1,244 fps.......29,800 psi
Max load: 10.0 gr.....1,330 fps.......32,300 psi

Well, I've used 8.7 grains with an OAL of 1.135" for an even 1,200 fps out of a Walther P99. No pressure signs that I could see after shooting up all 50 rounds.

So when I loaded up my NEXT batch using the same powder charge and OAL, it wasn't until after I was done that I noticed that I accidentally used Winchester Small MAGNUM primers instead of just SMALL PISTOL PRIMERS. Those dang boxes look so much alike, I didn't notice the difference. So now I have 100 of these bad boys loaded up.

DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE OKAY TO SHOOT THESE, or am I going to have to spend some time with the kinetic bullet puller?


Thanks for your advice!!!

 

[Hawkman]

May I chime in with an extension of that question? If I load .357 mag using book data and use a magnum primer where a standard small pistol primer was used in the book, should I back off the charge?

How much?

Thanks

 

[ZeusOne]

One of my Accurate Powder guides states; "(*) Do not exceed START charge if Winchester small pistol magnum primers are used." This leads me to believe that these puppies are rather hot.

Try calling Hodgon again and see if they will offer some professional guidance. Anecdotal replies should be regarded with caution.

Barring expert advice, especially in light of all the .40 K-B stories going around, I'd rather be safe than sorry. Being anal ensures that enoungh of us reloaders will be around to warrant the future of this forum!

 

[VictorLouis]

You NEED to get a steel-framed gun for use with those loads. I'll help with the puller, if you need it.

 

[labgrade]

I'm with ZeusOne on this. Call your powder co. first.

Buy all other accounts though, you're .3 grs below the recommended 10% below max for a starting load ....

Call Hodgdon.

I'd like to hear what they have to say.

 

[Clark]

I was working up an AA#5 115 gr JHP 9mm load when the WSP [Win small pistol primer] pierced at 11 gr.

The case failed at 11.7 gr with a small Kaboom, no structural damage, only cosmetic damage to the P11.

I then reduced the charge to 11 gr and used a WSPM [Winchester small pistol magnum pimer]. The kaboom was violent and caused structural damage to the extractor, hold open, and magazine floor plate.

The conclusion I reached was that the difference in pressure between a WSP and a WSPM is at least .7 gr AA#5 and probably a good deal more.

I am not showing a [feed ramp] case bulge in a Glock 22 until at least 25% powder over maximum book load.

The LONG SHOT loads would then be 3 gr away from a kaboom. A magnum primer would only push you 1 gr toward a kaboom, plus the 1.5 gr margin from your starting load, so you are OK.

1) Max book load Power Pistol 135 gr is 9.3 gr, 1.105", 1340 fps
Kel-Tek P40 case bulge at 11.4 gr
Glock 22 case bulge at 11.6 gr

2) Max book load Power Pistol 150 gr is 8.2 gr, 1.105", 1215 fps
Kel-Tek P40 case bulge at 10.8 gr

3) Max book load 3N37 155 gr is 8.0 gr, 1.126", 1267 fps
Kel-Tek P40 case bulge at 10.9 gr

 

[labgrade]

Interesting, Clark, & I'm thinking this may be one of those "everything you know is constant, linear & "OK," - except when it isn't.

I have "pushed the envelope" with many loads - pistols, revolvers, rifles .... the only thing I do know is everything is different between various seating depths, firearms, bullets, etc. ... that's THE only constant = it changes & it does matter (sometimes).

Zip for .40 experience here, but an "extra" .030" seating depth in 9mm can come close to doubling the pressures ... sometimes & with some bullets/powders - it varies.

Best advice is to give a jingle to Hogdon & ask 'em what's the deal with what's thrown together. They ought to have a good idea.

1/2 worse case = pull the bullets & start over. Real worse case = you get to go to the ER + buy a new pistol.

Personally (& it ain't my gun or face), I'm thinkin' you're OK. Not checking first with Hodgdon is less than desirable ...

BTW to hawkman = yes, you should & nobody knows till they try it and, in your firearm.

Recommendation is to reduce powder charge 10% below listed max for any component change - even bewteen different lots of any component. This is a steadfast rule except for those that don't quite fall into The Rules. H110 & 296 (IIRC) are ones that you load to what is stated ...

 

[bedlamite]

I've done some work with Longshot in 40 s&w in the last few months, including trying WSP and CCI standard and magnum primers, although I haven't tried your exact combination (I haven't had any WSPM primers since last year). I would expect it to be close to max pressure, at about 1300 fps, and you should be ok. I'd put one through the chrony and see what happens, but, as Labgrade said, it ain't my gun or face. Calling Hodgdon back is not a bad idea either.

The Longshot load I've settled on is 135gr Noslers on 11gr of Longshot with CCI 500 primers and 1.145" OAL, and it clocks in about 1440 fps, and groups about 2 1/2" @ 25yds from my Beretta 96 Elite.

 

[Mylhouse]

Thanks to all that replied!

Great information and advice from all of you! I will contact Hodgdon before the weekend, and I will post what I find out. Since it IS my hand and face, maybe I can whip out a trigger string and a blanket to catch my brass ala Clark!!!!

 

[George Helser]

Dave,

I’ll be glad to loan you my impact bullet puller which I bought to unload that .308 ammo I overcharged. (Be sure to use safety glasses and other if you deprime live primers.)

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona

 

[Mylhouse]

Thanks George,

but I already have a kinetic puller. I wouldn't be caught dead without one (and boy have I used it!)!

Email me with your fax #, and I'll send you the 9mm Vihta Vuori data from the reloading guide tomorrow.