Am I crazy for wanting a Vetterli project?

dakota.potts

New member
We had a lecture as part of my gunsmithing class on lecture where we went to an instructor's personal shop and looked at the history of cartridge firearms (bolt actions in particular) and the different ways that bolts were designed to handle pressure.

While there, the instructor showed us a rifle I'd never seen (or heard of) before - the Swiss Vetterli. It's considered to be the first repeating cartridge firearm to load from a magazine and the design is roughly 150 years old. It fires from a 10.4mm rimfire cartridge that is nearly impossible to get anymore and loads from a 12 round tube magazine. It's a rough ballistic equivalent to a .44 magnum. The point of interest was that it had two locking lugs at the rear of the bolt rather than the front.

Anyways, I thought it was a really cool and unique rifle design. I love firearms as weapons and the development of arms, and the Vetterli rifle is really cool for that reason. I also like the very smooth bolt throw and the unique 33" barrel.

Anyways, I see that they are online and they are not unreasonable prices. I am really thinking about buying one that's in a rough-ish condition (most of the metal finish stripped, for instance) and refinishing/re-bluing it as part of my projects for gunsmithing class. I also see that there is one ammo maker who specializes in obsolete cartridges and will load black powder .41 swiss centerfire ammo for $1.50 a round or $0.75 cents a round on your fired cases. I'd take care to bring the bluing back to a deep high polish while preserving all the important historical markings. Firing the centerfire ammo would require boring out the center of the bolt and making a firing pin and retainer for a centerfire conversion, all fairly simple parts and operations that I have the machining experience to do.

I'm just wondering if such a project would be considered a sin on such a historic rifle or something I would regret. The rifle can easily be converted back to rimfire, but the hole can't be taken out of the bolt. You can also never un-do the refinishing.

I just think it's a really cool rifle and I think one that I worked on myself would be something I could be proud to hang on the wall and to take shooting for the novelty when I decide I can afford to buy a couple of boxes of ammo.

What do you all think?
 

gyvel

New member
An original Vetterli was more than likely rust blued, not a high gloss blue. If you can learn to do rust blue, then you have something to be proud of as well as a skill that is in demand.

Rather than convert a bolt that is numbered to the gun, I would obtain another bolt to convert to center fire; That way, you have the option of both. .41 Swiss rimfire was available as surplus not too many years ago.

Generally speaking, most Swiss Vetterlis are in pretty good condition to begin with as the Swiss were very careful with their arms. To start "restoring" an already excellent condition rifle would not be a smart idea.
 

dakota.potts

New member
We do have access to rust browning, I will have to see if rust bluing is something we have access to.

I would not touch one that is in good shape, but I see some for auction online that are missing 95% of metal surface and gathering rust, and hoping one comes along that I can get for a low price. It's not enough past an idea or a novelty for me to spend asking price for a good condition rifle to then have to spend more on boutique ammo anyways. More of a challenge and personal curiosity.

Where are you hearing about .41 swiss surplus? I'm finding loaded cartridges (which have a reputation for sometimes not firing due to their age) for around $10 a round.
 

Nodak1858

New member
my answer , no.
I just picked up a M78 the other day. Mines is good shape, bore needs a scrubbing though. I'm going to convert mine. I'm a shooter not a collector. They are interesting rifles, it will fit nicely with all the other Swiss ones I have. Hopefully if it shoots decent I can use to chase whitetails this fall, be a hoot to get a deer with a rifle made in 1883.
 

Scorch

New member
You can find Italian Vetterlis for less than thei Swiss Vetterlis. Italian rifles were originally single shot, but had a magazine system similar to the Carcano installed before WW1 as reserve rifles. Last one I saw was pretty cheap.
 

kilimanjaro

New member
A lot of the Vetterli rifles were converted to centerfire around 1880, so I think finding a rough specimen and converting in as part of a full restoration is perfectly acceptable.

The alternative is to leave it alone, which means a crummy rusted rifle gets to continue life in some attic.

Go for it, and keep us posted.

Expect to pay a bit for a good example to work on. You're not going to lose any money on the project.

I know this is a sacrilege, but I believe there is a market for restoring antique firearms to like-new condition. There are thousands of junkers, but only a few in really nice shape. As long as you're not doing a Mitchell Mauser job, should be alright.
 

James K

Member In Memoriam
There is nothing odd about rear-locking bolts, and even rear-locking turnbolts have been common in recent years. For rear-locking non-turning bolts, we need look no further than the Winchester 94.

Swiss Vetterlis are common enough that I see nothing wrong in converting one to center-fire, especially since the old bolt head and firing pin can be saved and replaced if wanted.

Just remember that it IS a 150 year old rifle so a conversion to .416 Remington is definitely out.

Jim
 

Sarge

New member
Just remember that it IS a 150 year old rifle so a conversion to .416 Remington is definitely out.

Jim

Dang, now I have to take 'Culling elephants with a Vetterli' off my bucket list.
 

shuvelrider

New member
The Swiss Vetterelli in .41 rimfire were brought to the US as surplus in the early part of the last century, many were converted to centerfire and used as a cheap surplus rifle to hunt with. Pretty much what many people do with surplus army rifles. I recently sold an unopened box of .41 Swiss from the late 50's, it had twenty rounds in it. I got $100 for it, the new owner was going to put it with his unaltered Vetterelli rifle. I read of reference to them being used in the coal wars on Blair Mt. back in the 1920's, you used what you had or could afford.
 
Remington manufactured .41 Swiss rimfire smokeless rounds into the 1930s. Winchester also loaded the cartridge with smokeless powder, but I think they only loaded it for a short period of time, and Winchester rounds (and boxes) in .41 Swiss are VERY uncommon.

This page is a GREAT resource from a number of different standpoints:

http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/article/

It's got a great old ad for a "sporterized" Vetterli and some really good information and getting them to shoot again.
 
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