Am I Being Reasonable?

[DT Guy]

Or am I being an a$@#&@#?

I bought a used gun,a Star Firestar in .40 that was being sold on consignment, at a local shop. Nice place, nice people, got a good price.

Take the gun to the range, won't extract the second round. Try different mag, ammo, same thing. Take the gun right back, and the shop employee test fires it into their bulletstop. Same behavior, and they agree it's not functional. The employee offers to have their gunsmith fix it at no expense to me, which seems fair. (I like the gun, and would like to have it if it functions.) I leave the gun for a week for their gunsmith to see it. After a week, it's not fixed, but they have determined the extractor hook is shot and they're looking for one. So far, so good.

In the meantime, I start looking for an extractor. Turns out that the Firestar seems to have had an ongoing extractor problem in .40, and the supply is dried up. Nearest one I can find is in Eibar, Spain, which is a long drive from Illinois. Price pretty much prevents it from being realistic, also.

I call the shop after finding this out, to save them some trouble. They're appreciative, but still want to check their sources. OK.

I stop in about three days later, on a Sunday, and mention that I really don't see how they're going to get the gun running. (I'm afraid they may try to weld or re-cut it, something that might work for a while but be less than a thorough repair.) I ask for a refund, and they tell me they can't do a refund until Tuesday, when the manager is present. The salesman was very nice, as was every person I dealt with throughout the purchase and return of the gun. I mentioned this, and also mentioned that I thought a week and a half was long enough for them to determine if they could get a part. I feel I am well within my rights to ask for a refund, and I think any place that is open on Sunday should be prepared to handle whatever transaction comes along, including refunds. I also mention (quite politely) that I'm out to buy another gun, but won't be doing it at that store because of this. (This is all quite civil, which I appreciate.) I then left and spent $750 at another shop.

Long story-well, still long-am I being reasonable? I think a week and a half after getting a defective gun, albeit a used gun, is long enough to either have a date I'll get the repaired pistol back or a refund. I'd like to spend the money on another gun if this one can't be effectively repaired, and I'd like to do it without more delay.

So, am I right? Wrong? Impatient? Don't mention 'long-winded', I kind of figured that out looking at my post...

Thanks,
Larry

 

[TimRB]

Well, since you asked...

Whenever I buy something used, I go in with the understanding that all bets are off, so I'd better be on my toes. That means I take it upon myself to inspect the item carefully and, if I miss something, live with the result. This may not be the way you see things, and if so that's fine, too.

That said, I think the shop is being more than reasonable repairing the gun. In general, absent some specific agreement to the contrary, a seller is under no obligation to give a refund on a sale. As you've found out, the part is hard to find. Let them know you want a replacement part rather than a repair of the existing part, and let them try to find one. You continue to try to find one too.

I would not burn a bridge over something like this if the shop was a nice place, nice people, good prices.

Tim

 

[magooch]

You were absolutely right to expect the shop to repair the gun, or refund your money in a timely manner. A prudent shop owner would have offered you a refund immediately, unless of course he/she doesn't care if you ever come back again.

Rule number 1 of running a successful business is making the customer happy. Sometimes you even have to make customers happy when they are a little unreasonable. In your case, you surely are not being unreasonable. I'm sure that if you were told that the gun you were buying wouldn't function properly, you wouldn't have bought it. It is possible that you played the I'll not be buying another gun here card, a little prematurely.

 

[jailmedic]

Just my opinion

If they do not take care of the problem promptly and offer either a repair or a refund, then I think our understanding of "nice shop, nice people" may be a little different. If I owned the shop, I would have refunded your purchase and taken it on myself to repair the pistol or take it off the market. I think that sort of behavior defines who is worthy of your hard-earned money and who is not. A "nice shop with nice people" sells quality merchandise that they know about.
Good luck!
Buy a Ruger next time.....

 

[DT Guy]

I thank all of you for your replies. All were constructive and reasoned.

TimRB, I would agree with your line of reasoning if the gun were somewhat unreliable, inaccurate or suffered some other relatively minor, and undetectable, problem. I've kept and repaired such firearms I've bought previously. This is the first time I've ever purchased a firearm that would not work right out of the box, and would have presented itself upon any testing. And while I examined the gun closely, the missing extractor hook was something I missed-perhaps because I'd never seen what a 'good' one looked like?

magooch, that's how I ran my own business. I guess I sort of expect more, although I try to understand that different businesses require different models.

And actually, jailmedic, I DID go to buy a Ruger-I wanted to catch a Mark II while they were still in the pipeline. I ended up talking myself into a High Standard Supermatic Citation, just because I always wanted one.

Again, thanks for your replies,

Larry

 

[Handy]

I'm a little curious how long the shop is on the hook. If the extractors were defective, even the replacement will eventually fail. Is the shop that sold this used gun still responsible?

Maybe they could take the gun back for a refund, but I think the buyer of a discontinued firearm bears a little extra burden of responsibility to get the right information before purchasing.


Have you tried this guy: http://www.gun-parts.com/star/

 

[U.F.O.]

magooch nailed it.

"It is possible that you played the I'll not be buying another gun here card, a little prematurely."

Never show your hole card until absolutely necessary.
Threatening a future boycott before you know beyond a doubt that you're not going to get a refund does little to motivate the owner to make good on the existing problem. In your example I would have let the idea that you were in the market for another gun hang just out of reach like a carrot on a stick until the resolution.

U.F.O.

 

[johnbt]

"I think any place that is open on Sunday should be prepared to handle whatever transaction comes along, including refunds."

I agree they should be, but it rarely happens (to me anyway.) I dropped by a shop yesterday after lunch to see about ordering a Rohrbaugh for about $900 since they're listed as a dealer on Rohrbaugh's site. They asked me to come back and talk to the boss anytime M thru F. They aren't all that far from my house and paying the tolls again won't kill me, but I understand that he's in charge of the money and the ordering. Come to think of it, it was probably my fault since I asked what kind of deal they could cut me.

John

 

[jefnvk]

I can't say that you were being unreasonable, just that I would have acted differently.

I would have waited until Tuesday, and talked to the manager. If he refused to refund the price, maybe they would have let you trade it back in for the purchase price on the other gun you bought.

If you came into my store, told me you wanted a refund and that you were thinking about not using my store anymore, I probably wouldn't do it. You are not going to use my store, why should I be obliged to make you happy.

If you came in, voiced your concerns, and asked nicely for a refund/credit for your purchase, I probably would have been more inclined to help you out.

JMHO

 

[DT Guy]

Quote: "If you came in, voiced your concerns, and asked nicely for a refund/credit for your purchase, I probably would have been more inclined to help you out."

I may not have been clear in my post. This is what I did; I did not mention not making the purchase there until they would not complete the refund.

I think (as I suspected, hence the post) that I may have been a bit too quick to state my intentions-but I HAD been prepared to spend ~$1k there if they had refunded my money, and it seemed I should let them know that.

Argggg....

Larry

 

[PSE]

while its sometimes hard to resist an impulse buy, i would...
#1 recommend doing specific research on the gun, company, parts avail. before buying.
#2 if i am buying a 2nd tier manufacturers product, make sure you can get a refund if need be.

 

[XavierBreath]

I bought a used gun,a Star Firestar in .40 that was being sold on consignment, at a local shop.

Maybe I'm cutting the shop owner to much slack, but you bought a consignment gun. By definition, the gun store was not the owner of the gun, they were the broker of the deal. I think they went out of their way to help you. Your real transaction was with the gun's prior owner though.

True, the shop perhaps should have shot the weapon for function prior to placing it on their shelves. Perhaps the owner of the gun asked them not to. Perhaps the person who would do that was off that day. One of the questions I always ask is if I can shoot a used gun prior to purchase. Usually, the answer is sure. I buy the ammo and put a few rounds through it, even if it's only into a bulletstop. If I am told no, I ask if they have shot it. If they say yes, I ask how it shot. If they say no, I ask have they seen it shoot. I simply try to get them to say "It's a good shooting gun". That way, if there is a problem, they have at least somewhat stated the condition of what they were selling. Telling me "It looks good" means nothing. I can make that judgement myself.

I look over used guns very carefully, research problems prior to buying, and check prices on Gun Broker and Auction Arms. Buying a used gun is always a two trip endeavor for me. I give myself that time to research it. You can find a couple of recent threads on this forum about guns I was researching this past week prior to purchase. If I return and the gun is gone, Oh well, I still have my money for the next one.

I think this shop has gone beyond what many would do in this instance. I would give them my business. That is why the manager is making the decisions now, I'm pretty sure of that. You certainly have the right to never darken their door again, but consider that they only brokered the deal between you and another private party. You might have to eat the loss, but at the very least, if parts are that hard to find, break the gun down and auction off the parts!

 

[DT Guy]

XavierBreath,

I don't see them as a 'broker', although I understand your point. My receipt shows them as the seller, and I certainly never got a chance to communicate with the previous owner, as I would in a FTF sale. And your advice about asking if it's been shot is sound-I'll remember that.

I certainly don't consider the shop 'on the hook' beyond the gun functioning correctly as sold. If the extractor had broken after five shots (or even two) I wouldn't have so much as mentioned it to them-how could they have known?

I suppose part of my consternation is that somebody (perhaps the previous owner, perhaps the shop, perhaps an owner thrice removed) sold a gun they KNEW wouldn't work. It didn't develop a problem-it was broken as sold to me. I know there are people in this world who are dishonest-I've spent most of my life employed to catch them-but this is honestly my first experience with it among shooters, who I've come to think of as the most honest people you could ever meet.

Thanks all,

Larry

 

[jefnvk]

I suppose part of my consternation is that somebody (perhaps the previous owner, perhaps the shop, perhaps an owner thrice removed) sold a gun they KNEW wouldn't work.

I just put two guns on consignment. Is the store owner supposed to know if they work, other than what I tell him? No.

I understand that you are mad because you got stuck with a dud. But you are trying to turn around and stick the shop with one. Like I said before, if I were the store owner, I'd try to work with you. Frankly, they are trying to help you too. You said it best, the supply is dried up. IN that case, a week and a half probably isn't enough time to help make things right. Just be patient, its not as if they are not trying to help you.