Always be aware

[Tony Z]

Always be aware of everything when shooting! The other night, I was testing out some light loads in my Henry .357 (125 grain Berry over 4.1 grains of Unique). Shot well, but even with my earphones on, I felt the last round was not right.

Something bothered me about a half hour after putting the rifle down, getting some other rounds to try, and kept nagging me. I put a rod down the barrel and lo and behold, a round was stuck about 6" in from the muzzle! Got it out, and weighed-about 60 grains and looked like it was cut perfectly in half, exactly at the point where I put a very slight crimp. My first thoughts, with the clean cut was there may have been a flaw in the bullet itself. I will examine with a borescope when I have a chance, but any other thoughts or ideas?

 

[Colorado Redneck]

I read in this forum that copper plated bullets tend to have more friction than lead, so need to have a bit faster velocity/higher pressure to keep then from lodging in the bore. Lucky you found that!

 

[DaleA]

Interesting!

Any chance of some pictures of the portion of the bullet you removed?

 

[tangolima]

Plated bullets could have more friction than jacketed bullets.

-TL

 

[Tony Z]

Did some forensics on the bullet last night. First, it was NOT a Berry! I was a powdered metal frangible bullet. Though it looked like a plated Berry, I did not learn what it was until breaking a few of the remaining bullets I had. At that point, I remembered being given a container of the frangible bullets by a friend. In retrospect, this may be fully an error of mine, as these bullets may be entirely unusable in a rifle.

If coached as to how to post a picture, then I will definitely post a picture.

For full disclosure, I own a powder metal parts manufacturing business, and given the place where the fracture occurred (where I applied a slight crimp), my thoughts are the crimp caused the fracture. I did not find the front half of the bullet.

 

[g.willikers]

I was a powdered metal frangible bullet.

The transition must have been painful.
But seriously, a bullet that's designed to come apart apparently did what it was meant to, unfortunately it didn't wait until hitting the target.
Good to know about.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Tony Z]

Ha! Probably typing from my iPad.

Yes, the bullet probably did what it was supposed to do. I just returned from some shooting. After checking the Henry's bore, there was no apparent damage (didn't expect there to be). Earlier today, I loaded some Hornady 125 grain JHP on the same amount of 4.0 grains Unique. All shot and cycled through the lever action perfectly, all on target.

I shot the remaining frangible bullets from my Model 19 and all shot out of the 4" barrel without a problem, but it must be noted these are defense only bullets, as when they hit, they fracture.

I also shot some 148 grain wad cutters, over 2.7 grains of Bullseye out of the rifle and pistol. This has been my go to .38 round for 35 to 40 years, and they acted as they always have. What was very, very noticeable, is that the rounds out of the rifle were much quieter than out of the pistol! I may put a chronograph to them, and then again I may not, as the rifle is for plinking and inside shooting (I have a single lane inside range). I do have a ventilation fan for the lead fumes, but if there was a single advantage for the frangible bullets, it is they're lead free.

Again, I have to emphasize these were NOT Berry or Ranier plated bullets, but a powdered metal frangible. If anything, I've got to kick myself in the azz multiple times for loading a bullet without identifying info. I simply weighed the bullets & measured the OD (125 grain and .357 OD), and loaded using Lyman data. I did not remember being given the frangibles, and really should have put some identifying labels into the plain, plastic container they were housed in. I also have to emphasize that being powdered metal, the inside resembles tiny grain cast iron and putting a crimp on to a bullet like this, however slight, most likely caused a slight fracture line around the perimeter. As the happened with the last round from a 10 round magazine load, I wondering if the recoil, even if slight, exacerbated that slight fracture enough, that upon firing, the result was the bullet coming apart.

However, I am not going to try to replicate this through experimentation, and since the manufacturer is only 40 miles away (and in the same industry as mine), I may inquire of them their opinion. I suspect their opinion is that this is a pistol defense round, and the mistake was mine solely (which it was).

 

[44 AMP]

This leaves me with a couple of questions...

Was there a target, and was there anything unusual about any of the bullet strikes?

I am wondering if it was not the rifle barrel, but the combination of crimp AND the feeding cycle? Despite very light recoil, there is a certain amount of spring powered "slam" to each round as it moves into feeding position in the tubular magazine.

Perhaps this, combined with the fracture of the bullet due to the crimp was enough to break that last round's bullet??

I would classify it as a squib, as the entire bullet did not leave the bore.

 

[buck460XVR]

Earlier today, I loaded some Hornady 125 grain JHP on the same amount of 4.0 grains Unique. All shot and cycled through the lever action perfectly, all on target.

I'd be a tad leery of a stuck bullet with those loads too. To avoid stuck bullets in my .357 and .44 carbines, I tend to stick with reduced loads that still stay above 850-900 fps in a revolver, especially when using fast powders. I shoot 125 XTPs with 7 gr of Unique and they shoot like .22 mags.

 

[Tony Z]

First there was a target-a swinging steel target that gave immediate sight and sound feedback. I honestly can't remember enough of the moment to classify it as a squib load or what, but something did not feel right, and that led me to check the barrel with a cleaning rod.

The 125 JHP shot fine on top of 4.1 grains of Unique and the sound was much lower than a .22 LR, so I'm going to bump up the powder to the 4.3 range.

As I've posted, this problem was mine, by mistaking a frangible bullet for a Ranier or Berry style plated bullet. I do believe there were multiple issues that cause the stuck bullet, but to top the list would be the crimp, as that is where the fracture occurred. This is also something I am not going to try to replicate. A friend relayed to me that when firing the frangible bullets from his GP100, he had "blowback" of particles coming out ahead of the cylinder. Another friend, a police officer experienced similar issues in his service weapon. I'm left wondering if any police department use this style of bullet as "duty ammo" and I have no interest in trying to replicate the problem.

 

[burrhead]

I shoot a lot of frangibles out of my AR. DO NOT CRIMP! They're brittle and will break.