Ain't having much luck with 30-30 loads--any suggestions?

[TexasSeaRay]

My Achilles Heel in reloading has always been, for whatever reason, loading the 30-30 Winchester round.

I've got a beautiful Winchester Model 94 that has less than 75 rounds fired through it. I have an older Model 1894 that has who-knows-how-many rounds fired through it. Both guns have iron sights--which may be part of my problem. But I don't think a scope belongs on a lever action rifle. That's just me--I like the looks and utility of an iron-sights lever action gun. Also like that it fits in my gun sleeve that's attached to my saddle rig when I'm out on the horse.

Both rifles will give me decent groups with just about any brand of factory ammo. And "decent groups" rather than good or excellent is about all I hear anyone can really expect from 30-30.

But my reloading groups are pretty bad.

Today, I tried some IMR 4895 behind a Speer 150 gr FP and while the groups improved somewhat, they were still in the neighborhood of four inches at around 75 - 80 yards. I knocked an inch of that with factory ammo.

I'm primarily interested in working up a load for the Model 94, and I'm wide open to bullet/powder/primer combinations.

Anyone got any loads that work well for you and that you wouldn't mind sharing?

Thanks.

Jeff

 

[wpcexpert]

My 30-30

Sir, I have been planning on loading for my Marlin 30-30 for quite some time. I've been looking at different bullets and what not. But what I've noticed out of the factory ammo that I've tried, that rifle just does not like 150gr projectiles. I read somewhere a while back the that the 30-30 was designed to shoot 170gr bullets. My gun shoots the best groups with the Winchester 170gr. I know this isn't much help as far as you looking for good loads. But you might try the heavier bullets.

Oh and with the Winchester 170 gr. I've been grouping about 1.5in at 100yds. (Scoped)
My Dad gave me this rifle for my first deer gun. I think he boutght it about 30 years ago for $99.

 

[TexasSeaRay]

wpcexpert,

It IS a help--I'll order some heavier bullets and check out load data for them.

For whatever reasons, I've just never been a 30-30 shooter even though I own two nice ones. I love the guns, just never have been able to do much with them.

Figure it's time to change that.

Thanks again.

Jeff

 

[somerled]

Jeff,

You might look around www.leverguns.com. I've seen some good tips about reloading .30-30 and other WCF cartridges there. Paco Kelly has an article about varmint loads using lighter bullets.

I loaded slower burning powders than IMR 4895 with Speer and Nosler 150-grain bullets. I used Win 748, BL-C(2), IMR 4064 and Reloder 15. Reloder 15 was my favorite. It measures easily. I reloaded for two Model 94s, a 16-inch and a 20-inch. I also used the Sierra 125 grain JFP, which was deadly on coyotes, and Reloder 7. It shot flat and didn't kick up bruises when used in the Trapper like the 170-grain factory loads did. I wish I still had those pre-AE 94s.

I didn't completely full-length resize the cartridges. The brass lasted longer and the groups were better. I sized it enough to get the necks tight but not bump the shoulders back. They chambered fine.

It is one of the rifle cartridges I don't mind working up cast lead bullet loads for. IMR 4895 would be a good choice. Lyman makes a good expander die to open up case mouths for cast bullets.

 

[Koveras]

I load 30-30 for a Win 94, a Savage 340C, and a TC Encore rifle, so I have tried to find a load that works well for all three using Speer and Sierra 150 FP bullets and LaserCast 170gr FP with Gas Checks. I settled on H335, as I can use it with both the jacketed and cast bullets, it seems to burn very consistently, and is a fine ball powder so it meters well.

Good loading data for the 150 FP bullets can be found on the H335 powder can. I reduced by 10% since I started using Speer bullets and CCI-200 primers and worked up. I never reached the max listed load because I found a load that met my needs a couple of grains below it. Lots of loading manuals recommend magnum primers with H335, but in the 30-30 I have not found this to be necessary.

The Lyman Reloading Handbook has good loading data for the 170 FP GC bullet using H335.

Two suggestions for loading the 30-30:
1) Use something like a Lee Universal Case Expanding die to gently flare the mouth for both jacketed and cast bullets. The brass on the 30-30 is thin and this helps the bullet center a little better as it is seated. You may also want to seat the bullet halfway, then rotate the case 180 degrees and finish the seating.
2) As noted above, the brass on the 30-30 is not particularly thick, so use a Lee factory crimp die to apply the final crimp. This avoids stress on the shoulder and slight buckling that deforms the case out of round.

This is just my experience. Hope it helps.

 

[roy reali]

Try This

Try working up someloads using Varget powder and Sierra 170 grain flat points. I had a finicky .30-30 and this combo worked well.

 

[stinger]

My first suggestion would be to use ANY bullets except Speer. They make great handgun bullets, but I do not care for the accuracy of their rifle bullets. (No I haven't shot them all and I'm sure there are many out there with different experiences...I don't know anyone who uses them in rifles)

Also, IMR 3031 is just about the perfect powder to use in this cartridge. A max charge is plenty accurate with 170g Hornady, Winchester, or Remington bullets.

 

[kasTX]

My first suggestion would be to use ANY bullets except Speer. They make great handgun bullets, but I do not care for the accuracy of their rifle bullets. (No I haven't shot them all and I'm sure there are many out there with different experiences...I don't know anyone who uses them in rifles)

I am one of those people that has had the opposite experience. My Marlin 336 shows a strong preference for 170gr Speer FP.

Going up to 170gr might help a lot. I originally got into reloading so I could work up a series of loads for the 336, i.e., 170gr for hogs, 150gr for deer, 110gr for coyotes, etc. Well, the rifle had other ideas. 170's shoot very well, the 150's not so well but OK, the 130's didn't shoot well enough to use, the 110's were something like 8" at 100 yards, and the 100gr Plinkers were a complete waste of time, effort, and powder. I dont' know if it was a matter of the difference in mass, bearing surface, or some other thing, but I have stuck to Speer 170s since then.

Interestingly, I have a post 64 Winchester 70 that really doesn't care what bullet weight you use. Just last weekend I was able to consistently shoot sub MOA with Sierra 125gr SP's as well as 150gr Hornady SP's. Go figure.

 

[azredhawk44]

TSR:

My Win94's absolutely love Reloder15 and Hornady 170gr flatpoints. They can't get enough of it. My specimens are a 1970's era model I picked up used and abused for $125, and a end-of-run 2006 with the tang safety. Both give me ~2 inches at 100 yards from a bench or 3 inches sitting/prone.

I don't load for peak accuracy for my 94's... they get whatever fodder happens to be "extra" lying around from my .308 M1A reloading, so there are a lot of .30 caliber rifle powders out there I haven't tried. But I've done IMR4895/H4895/Reloder15/H335 with much the same result. It liked H335 the least, but that very well could have been me, as it was very early in my rifle shooting days. But, the Reloder15 was even earlier... so who can say?

I had a scope on the newer angle-eject 94 but didn't care for its handling at all. It now is equipped as intended, with the standard sights on board.

 

[Dumpster Baby]

I've read about the same kind of problem with bullet weight in .303 British. It appears most Enfields don't like 150 gr bullets or boat tail bullets. They like 175-180 gr flat base bullets for best accuracy.

Some things are mysteries not knowable by the mind of Man.

 

[Sarge]

Tex,

I have never seen a Winchester that wouldn't group well with one or another 150 grain bullet, and I have used that Speer bullet with good results. It is an excellent hunting bullet, too.

Awhile back I was fiddling with a no-button 94AE, playing with loads and trying to find something that would match the POI of WW/150 Power Points to 200 yards, using the Sierra bullet of the same weight. I have a backstop 215 yards from the back step, and an old folding table that I throw a tire up on to shoot over.

Given the ranges involved and 51 year old eyes, I had been using big, nondescript aiming points like a blue antifreeze jug hung in front of a cardboard backer. I was mainly interested in POI convergence, so I wasn't really hunkering down and trying to stick 'em together. A shooting buddy named Hobie had recommended 34.0 of H4895, which turned out to exactly match the WW load's POI, while shading it about 15 fps in the velocity department. SD was low so, cases looked right and the stars were lining up for something good.

As the load development progressed I kept seeing groups of 4" or under- not bad for a lever-cranker. Well one day when the old eyes were working pretty good, I stapled a paper plate to a cardboard box, and made a genuine effort toward consistent sight alignment and careful trigger squeeze...

I had about a 6 mph crosswind from the right, so I didn't bother the sights any. In fact I carried it straight into the house and set it up real careful, in the corner

Like me a lot of folks have cussed the later 94's for harder triggers, square bottom receiver, etc. but the fact is that this rifle out-shot any 30-30 I ever owned. It seems to have a tight chamber and fired casings resize easily. Anyhow I felt this gives an idea of how well they can shoot when everything works out just right. I'd likely never never duplicate these, with 50 pounds of powder & a whiskey-barrel full of bullets. I normally can't shoot this well with iron sights at all.

 

[TexasSeaRay]

34.0 of (IMR)4895 is one grain over what is recommended as max load when loading for a 150 grain bullet.

I shot some 33.0 yesterday and got the best of four groups. Inspecting the cases, didn't see any signs of over-pressure, or even getting close. So, I'll probably load up a half-dozen rounds with 34.0 grains and see what happens.

Think I'll definitely experiment with different bullets. I've had these Speer 150 gr FP bullets for twenty years. I shoot 150 gr Speer SP in my 30-06 and get half to three-quarter inch four-shot groups at a hundred yards. I don't have a problem with Speer bullets, but I'm not married to them either.

Will probably try a couple of different powders as well. Will do a hodgepodge of combinations, grab some Ben Gay for my shoulder and head to the range and see what happens.

I absolutely appreciate all the responses and help. Thank you very much.

Jeff

 

[flashhole]

I had the same problem with my Marlin 336 in 30-30. It just would not shoot 150 grain bullets at all, no matter who the manufacturer. It always looked like I was patterning a shotgun. 170 grain bullets were a completely different story. Sub MOA and it really liked the Speer and Nosler bullets best.

 

[Longfoot]

I have reloaded for .30-30 with great success using Speer 170gr FP's, and IMR 4350.

With my iron sights, I'm grouping at around 2 inches at 75 yards (I'm not a great shot, either.)

 

[Sarge]

Tex,

I used Hodgdons 4895 and it is close but not interchangeable with the IMR 4895. Per the manufacturer's website, using the 150 Sierra and IMR 4895 with an OAL of 2.550" , the 'start' load is 31.5 gr for 2071 fps and 32,200 CUP.

They show the max load for your powder as 33.5 grains for 2213 fps and 34,300 CUP.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

I personally would not exceed the manufacturer's recommendation for the specific powder you are using and I certainly never intended to imply that. You are also using a different bullet and while it is of the same weight, it is still a component change and will have an effect on pressure. Stay safe & have fun.

PS...It also occurred to me that my .30-30 loads showed a dramatic increase in accuracy after I started using the Lee Factory Crimp Die, and abandoned the practice of roll-crimping into the bullet cannelure with the ancient RCBS .30-30 dies i have been using since the 70's. For one thing it allows a uniform crimp with a much wider range of case length. It is also much easier on brass and you will get far fewer crumpled shoulders using the Lee FCD. Thought I'd mention that, just in case you hadn't tried it.

 

[ryalred]

I have had good success in my Marlin 30-30 using 150 grain Speer Flat Point (Hot-cor) bullets using 33 grains of Varget. The accuracy is excellent. I seat to the cannelure and crimp lightly.

 

[TEDDY]

30/30

I cant offer advice but I have a like new post 64 win.I am using lyman 311291
and will try the Lee 170 gr.309-170 in future,I am waiting for warm weather as this 83 does not like the cold.I tried scope but offset no way.the trapper in 45 colt with center scope was all right.but what do I need scope for.my new eyes[cataracts]are better that I ever saw.why use jacket when the original guns were fine with lead.I load in every thing from 6.5 carcano to 8mm.--------

 

[Sarge]

Congrats on the rebuilt winkers Teddy...you hang in there & keep slinging that lead. I glad we have guys around with your amount of experience.