Aimpoint or Eotech "WHY"??

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Will Lee

New member
Guys, there is something I see a lot at the range and just don’t understand.

I’m 63 and have 2 very fine AR-15s, both of which are outfitted with very good scopes and are capable of shooting 1 MOA or better at 500 yards.

I see these young guys showing up at the range with fine AR-15s with a Aimpoint or Eotech on their weapon. They hang targets up at 50 yards and shoot 3 to 6 inch groups. Most don’t even hang a target up at 100 yards.

Those that I have seen shoot at 100 yards are all over the paper.

Those aiming devices were designed for Close Quarter Battle (CQB). What I’ve seen of the prices for those, one could have a very fine scope and a weapon that could drive nails at 200 yards.

I just don’t understand unless those with the Aimpoint & Eotech are planning on CQB.

I have my asbestos shorts on so y’all can have at me if you want but this is my opinion. Get rid of those aiming device a put a good scope on that good weapon.
 
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Achilles11B

New member
Perhaps they have home defense in mind?

Or, and I think this is the case...

If you are shooting as a hobby, then it should be FUN. I'm willing to bet that everyone here has their different definitions of what 'fun' is, and what sounds like a great day for me might bore the tar out of you, and vice versa. So if those guys are being safe, and want to punch a 23 MOA hole in a paper target from half a football field out, then so what?
 
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Stevie-Ray

New member
Perhaps they have home defense in mind?
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That's the ticket. My AR has never been fired past 50 yards. If I wanted to use a scope, I probably wouldn't have gotten the configuration I have.
 
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THORN74

New member
I can't reply for the shooters the op has seen, but I just put an Eotech exps2-2 on my ar. It has two 1moa dots in the 60moa circle .... as per the manual, once zeroed at 50yrd the rifle would be zeroed for 50, 250, 500, and 7 yrds depending on what part of the reticle u are using. Perhaps they were just sighting in when u observed them?

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
 
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Will Lee

New member
Perhaps they have home defense in mind?

Or, and I think this is the case...

If you are shooting as a hobby, then it should be FUN. I'm willing to bet that everyone here has their different definitions of what 'fun' is, and what sounds like a great day for me might bore the tar out of you, and vice versa. So if those guys are being safe, and want to punch a 23 MOA hole in a paper target from half a football field out, then so what?
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Achilles, I surely don't mean to come across as a complete Alpha Hotel. I agree with your second paragraph.

As for home defense I don't believe in using rifles or hand guns. My home defense weapon, and I pray I never have to use it, is a shoot gun load with Single "0" buck shoot.
 
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Will Lee

New member
I can't reply for the shooters the op has seen, but I just put an Eotech exps2-2 on my ar. It has two 1moa dots in the 60moa circle .... as per the manual, once zeroed at 50yrd the rifle would be zeroed for 50, 250, 500, and 7 yrds depending on what part of the reticle u are using. Perhaps they were just sighting in when u observed them?
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Thorn, I've not seen the model you have show up at the range but if it will shoot 1 MOA at 250 & 500 yards then you have a very fine sighting system. Have you tried it yet at those ranges?

Another thing to look at Thorn is the ballistics table for the round you are shooting and see if they match the manufactures claim.
 
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theunderdog1982

New member
Ar-15's would be a good choice for home defense since the speed of the bullet is moving so fast once it hits a wall it starts to break up. There are plenty of videos on youtube to prove that point. The only downside to the ar-15 I could see is that you'll probably be temporarily deaf.

But getting back to the Aimpoint, Eotech, I'd use a magnifier if I wanted to reach out a little bit.
 
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Mrgunsngear

New member
I currently have 5 ARs; all but 1 set up for HD. 1 has a variable 4x16 on it I use for shooting at distance and the rest have red dots with 2-4MOA dots. Good enough for 100m and in IMO and much quicker than a scope.

When a bad guy is kicking in your door who cares if you can put 3'' groups at 300m? ;)
 
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RyeDaddy

New member
Not everybody shoots for groups all the time. Hitting the target is good enough for my purposes with an AR15. My 308 AR has a long range scope and I use it for precision shooting. My AR15 however is mostly used for fast shots while moving in tactical competition, and an Aimpoint or Eotech is certainly faster for that type of shooting. In tactical shooting(which I find more fun than bench shooting) a hit is a hit, groups are irrelevant.

For what it's worth I have no trouble making hits on man size targets out to 300 yards with an unmagnified Aimpoint T1, it won't make groups that are tight with it's 4 MOA dot, but it'll hit 100%.

If you're asking why these guys can't get good groups from a bench with red dot sights I think you already know, they're inexperienced kids who want to play commando. They'll figure it out... Or maybe the desire to be good at something will never awaken in them.
 
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LSnSC

New member
The Aimpoints and Eotec's are not designed to be precision optics. They are designed for fast target aquisition and minute of badguy accuracy.
If I take my time I can shoot 2" groups at 100 yds with my Aimpoint.
If I wanted to shoot farther with more precision I would use a different optic.
 
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Will Lee

New member
Not everybody shoots for groups all the time. Hitting the target is good enough for my purposes with an AR15. My 308 AR has a long range scope and I use it for precision shooting. My AR15 however is mostly used for fast shots while moving in tactical competition, and an Aimpoint or Eotech is certainly faster for that type of shooting. In tactical shooting(which I find more fun than bench shooting) a hit is a hit, groups are irrelevant.

For what it's worth I have no trouble making hits on man size targets out to 300 yards with an unmagnified Aimpoint T1, it won't make groups that are tight with it's 4 MOA dot, but it'll hit 100%.

If you're asking why these guys can't get good groups from a bench with red dot sights I think you already know, they're inexperienced kids who want to play commando. They'll figure it out... Or maybe the desire to be good at something will never awaken in them.
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RyeDaddy, Ok I understand your use of the device and agrees completely. You are a marksman, that's obvious from you writing.

Roger on your last paragraph, I know.

Will
 
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Father Time

New member
I see these young guys showing up at the range with fine AR-15s with a Aimpoint or Eotech on their weapon. They hang targets up at 50 yards and shoot 3 to 6 inch groups. Most don’t even hang a target up at 100 yards.
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That sounds like a skill issue not an equipment issue.... Maybe these young guys didn't have anyone to teach them the fundamentals. Many older people forget that we where lucky to grow up in a time when it was more common for a father or grandfather to teach basic shooting skills to the younger generation.
I have met many young shooters at the range that are basicaly teaching themselfs to shoot.

As for me I can also hit man sized targets out at 300 yards with an EoTech. Its no harder to do than with iron sights.

As for the purpose of the optic on my rifle? I often shoot in low light conditions (hog hunting at dusk/dawn) that make seeing the irons difficult.
 
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Will Lee

New member
Quote:
Maybe these young guys didn't have anyone to teach them the fundamentals. Many older people forget that we where lucky to grow up in a time when it was more common for a father or grandfather to teach basic shooting skills to the younger generation.
I have met many young shooters at the range that are basicaly teaching themselfs to shoot.

As for me I can also hit man sized targets out at 300 yards with an EoTech. Its no harder to do than with iron sights.

As for the purpose of the optic on my rifle? I often shoot in low light conditions (hog hunting at dusk/dawn) that make seeing the irons difficult.
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Father Time I understand your abilities and I to am first & foremost a hunter.
I started my training as a shooter at 10 under the guidance of my father. I got extreme formal training in the military in 1967. I have a late life family, as stated earlier I am 63 and i have a 16 year old Son & a 13 year old Daughter. The Son cares nothing about shooting or guns. My daughter loves to shoot and she is getting quite good at reloading, under my direct supervision.

I have offered on several occasions, while at the range - weekly, to help those young folks I see on the range, few have ever accepted the offer.

Will
 
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Will Lee

New member
Will, you didn't come across as sour. Everyone here is just having a discussion. No big deal.
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Thanks Achilles, I surely did not want to come across as "sour". It's a topic that has been on my mind for a while and as this is a good place to have these kind of discussions is why I posted it.

Will
 
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Will Lee

New member
I taught myself to shoot and i'm still developing as a shooter.
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Underdog, If you live in the Dallas area I would be more than happy to help you further develop your shooting skills. If you don't live in this area, next time your at the range and if you see some old fart shooting nice tight groups go up to him and ask him if he could help you learn to shoot like that. I know that if I am at the range and anyone comes to me for help I would stop everthing I was doing and go help them.

Will
 
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