Ahh... Some "information" from a Gun Magazine.

JohnKSa

Administrator
Just finished reading a popular firearms magazine and had to comment on a couple of things. (Before we get started, I want to make it clear that I don't intend this post to be a blanket indictment of all gun magazines and gun writers.)

One frequent author commented that: How could a gun company "make this popular pistol even more popular? Well, if the company had asked me, I would have told it to chamber the gun for the most popular of all American pistol cartridges: the .45ACP."

Sounds good, right? Unfortunately, it's simply not true that the .45ACP is the most popular of all American pistol cartridges. If we wanted to nitpick we would say that the .22LR holds that title--but that's not fair, he's clearly talking about centerfire semi-auto pistols. So then, what's the winner in that arena? Well, according to Winchester as quoted by M. Ayoob in his COPTALK column in American Handgunner, the "9mm is still far and away the best selling centerfire handgun caliber among retail customers" and "40S&W is the clear-cut bestseller in the police sector, followed by the 9mm".

I guess this particular gunwriter thinks if he says it enough, it will make it true... Or maybe when he says "most popular of all" he means "my favorite". I certainly wouldn't want to impugn his knowledge of the gun world by implying that he doesn't know the truth. :D

But that's not all, in the same magazine there's a review of a certain $1500 pistol done by another commonly known gun writer. This gun fared quite well in the accuracy testing. At least until you read the small print. The author apparently believes that this full-sized semi-auto with a "5 inch match grade" barrel should be tested at SEVEN yards. Yup, a whole 21 feet. So, all you folks willing to spend $1500 on this semi-custom pistol are no doubt extremely happy to know that it will keep all its shots under 2" at 7 yards. The best group was an "impressive five-shot string that measured only 1.5 inches" at seven yards. Wow. :rolleyes:

Fortunately that's only a couple articles out of the entire magazine, and even in the articles with the gaffes, there was some useful information. It just goes to show that a person can't accept what's printed as gospel, nor should we neglect to read the small print.
 

BigJimP

New member
I agree with you John, but the mags are still fun to read just for leisure.

You have to read the fine print.
 

hanno

New member
The only "gun" mag I read anymore (unless I'm stuck in the dentist's office) is "American Rifleman" and I get that free from the NRA life membership.
 

Lurper

New member
Not to nit-pick J, but your statements don't disprove what he said. Read the entire context of what Mas said. He addressed the retail sector and police sector. The author's contention could be correct if you are looking at the most popular cartridge historically. It would be hard for the .40 to be a contender for example because of the short relative lifespan.

For the record, I don't read any gun magazine. I have seen too much bad info in them.
 

Darren007

New member
I agree. While the .45 acp thing is just nitpicking IMHO, the 7 yard test is common, do to the commonly held belief that most gun fights occur at 7 yards or less.
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
So maybe when he says "most popular" he means "traditionally most popular" or "historically most popular"? I guess that could well be. I don't have statistics for ammo sales going back to the beginning of the century so it would be hard for me to refute on the accuracy of such a statement with hard data. On the other hand, I kind of doubt he has that information either. ;)

I think that it would be hard to support the idea that the .45ACP is even the "traditionally most popular" handgun cartridge. It wasn't until Cooper got popular that semi-autos were widely accepted for defense/LE purposes, before that the most popular defense/LE cartridge was, by far, the .38spl. And even after Cooper convinced people that semi-autos could be reliable, the LE community responded by adopting "wondernines", not the .45ACP pistols.

Maybe if you consider the entire life of the .45ACP it would be reasonable to call it the "traditionally most popular" handgun cartridge over the whole period since while it's never made the top of the list it's always been a strong contender.
the 7 yard test is common, do to the commonly held belief that most gun fights occur at 7 yards or less.
I certainly don't mind seeing 7 yard offhand testing, preferably to demonstrate the rapid fire capabilities of the pistol. But when you test a $1500 semi-custom pistol with a match grade barrel, there needs to be something more than 7 yard slow fire offhand results included in the article.

What was really crazy was the assertion that a 5 shot group of 1.5" at 7 yards was "impressive". If that's true, then a group like this (shot with a $400-$500 factory stock gun at 25 yards) is just plain out of this world! It measures between 1.6" and 1.7".
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Maybe if you consider the entire life of the .45ACP it would be reasonable to call it the "traditionally most popular" handgun cartridge over the whole period since while it's never made the top of the list it's always been a strong contender.
I would think the .38 would have that honor:confused:
 

buzz_knox

New member
So maybe when he says "most popular" he means "traditionally most popular" or "historically most popular"? I guess that could well be. I don't have statistics for ammo sales going back to the beginning of the century so it would be hard for me to refute on the accuracy of such a statement with hard data. On the other hand, I kind of doubt he has that information either.

How about "uniquely American" (if you discount Norway)? ;)
 

hanno

New member
How does he define "popular?"

If the amount of .45 ACP bought by the military over the years is also factored in, I would be very surprised if .45 ACP wasn't the most "popular" American pistol cartridge.
 
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Sevens

New member
Seriously... wouldn't you have to define "popular" before you can shred apart what the author of some throwaway article has claimed? The guy isn't telling you (incorrectly) that the speed of sound is absolutely 300 feet per second and begging to be refuted. He's saying the .45 is the most popular.

What makes it the most popular? Ammo sales? Firearm sales? From which point... thursday three weeks ago until today? Or is it more like movie actresses... the most "popular" is the one on all the magazine covers, leads the top-50 best dressed column, and appears in the upcoming summer blockbuster?

When you walk in to a gun store, are there more .45s in the display case, or 9's? If you worked as a range officer for one month, would you see more 9s chucked than .45s?

I think it's safe to say that the .45 auto is more popular than the .32 S&W Long. But when it comes to mainstream and commonly produced ammunition calibers, saying that one is the most popular is just about as silly as trying to take someone to task for saying it. I don't think it was given as a factual statement that was begging to be challenged, it really just sounds like he's trying to entertain an audience.

...which is pretty much what WE do here with most of our discussion threads. Entertain, converse, share the hobby. We aren't splitting atoms.
 

arizona98tj

New member
It just goes to show that a person can't accept what's printed as gospel, nor should we neglect to read the small print.
Very, very, very true.

I apply your statement to anything I read, including internet forums. I find more misinformation on the internet than I've ever found in a magazine....perhaps due to the 1,000,000 to 1 ratio of internet authors to magazine authors. ;)





Note: 1,000,000:1 was selected for impact only and does not reflect any actual data regarding the number of internet authors currently in existence.
 

saspic

New member
Here's a hypothesis: many people with 9mm handguns have them because of logistics. Ammo is cheaper, recoil is less, capacity is higher. They are not necessarily "fans" of the nine.
A much higher percentage of those with .45 A.C.P. handguns have them because they love the .45 A.C.P. They are willing to accept lower capacity, higher ammo cost, etc. for a reason.

Maybe that's what he was referring to?
 

laytonj1

New member
Gun magazine writers are usually guys just like you and me... except, they get paid to give their opinion and we give it for free.

Jim
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
I don't think it was given as a factual statement that was begging to be challenged, it really just sounds like he's trying to entertain an audience.
Honestly, I believe that at least some of these guys consider themselves "evangelists" spreading the "gospel" of the .45ACP.

Read a few gun magazines. As soon as a new semi-auto comes out in any caliber but .45ACP, every single review will have a line to the effect. "Great gun but it needs to be in .45ACP." Well, maybe it DOES, but it's still comical to see them trying so hard... :D

It's almost like they think if they don't push it every second it will wither and fade away.
 
There's a very good chance that the .38 Special could be also be classified as the "most popular" military round in the United States.

During World War II the US military bought nearly 1 million S&W and Colt revolvers chambered in .38 Special, and quite a few more in the years afterwards.

I'm not sure how many 1911s were made for military use over its entire history, but I'd be very surprised if the total number was much more than that.

The wildcard to factor in is the number of S&W and Colt 1917s that were purchased.

Civilian sector?

I think the .38 Special wins that hands down.

Smith & Wesson alone has made close to 5 million .38 Specials for domestic consumption; Colt very likely a similar number. Factor in Taurus, Rossi, Dan Wesson, Ruger, and others, and I'd bet that the number of .38s made dramatically out numbers the .45s.

The .45 as a popular all around chambering in this country didn't truly kick off until after World War II when scads of cheap 1911s and 1917s got into the hands of returning GIs.
 

gbran

New member
There's another fellow who road tests firearms. I like his reviews, but every gun he tests, mostly handguns, are all olympic class accurate. Pretty soon, you kinda wonder whether he's telling stories about his prowess with a handgun or..............?
 

Sgt.Fathead

Moderator
This past year, crumb snatcher relatives (you know, shorter versions of us, nephews and cousins and whatnot) were not selling cookies, light bulbs, wrapping paper or frozen pizza kits. No, this year we bought magazine subscriptions from the cradle midgets. So I got 'Guns and Ammo' and 'Field and Stream'. I always manage to pick something up from each that is useful, if only one of the dozen subscription cards to pick my teeth with.

I equate the vast majority of what I see and hear via the media be it print, video or the net with that sage saying, "Must be true, I saw it on TV!" Watcher, reader, listener and buyer beware!

The NRA mags are great too.
 

WESHOOT2

New member
the nine is fine (and they make-n-sell alot)

I agree with Winchester, as reported by Mr. A.

I test a handgun at 7yd for function.....LOL.
 
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