Advice on hunting with Zouave Replica?

4

45-70

New member
I have a Zouave replica by Hy Hunter, made in Italy, that I picked up a couple of years ago in like new condition. It was too good to pass up at $225. I have used a TC White Mountain Carbine .50 cal. to hunt with for 15 years, but have never shot this Zouave. I'm planning on trying it at the range in the next couple of weeks, assuming I can round up the proper bullets.

Now this is getting a bit ahead of things, but it I can get it on paper at 50 yards, I'm wondering if I could use it for deer or feral hogs? If so, does anyone have suggestions on loads?
 
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Steve499

New member
It's a .58, right? If so, a .575 minie on top of 60-70 grains of FFG should be a good place to start for accuracy and plenty good enough for any hog out there. The .58 rifled muskets I'm familiar with have a slow twist and will also shoot patched round balls as accurately as they will shoot minies in most cases. The only problem with hunting using patched balls is trying to reload one with that itty bitty steel ramrod.

My .58 is pretty temperamental with minies and charge weight of the powder. I imagine it has to do with the skirt thickness, which varies with different styles of minie bullets, and how much powder it takes to flare the skirt into the rifling. Be prepared to spend some range time finding what yours likes.

Steve
 
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Hafoc

New member
If I remember correctly, the Zouave is a replica of a rifle that Remington made for the government early in the Civil War. That's rifle, not rifled musket. I think it was still made for minnie balls, so I agree that's a good choice. The difference would be-- IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY-- that it has a stronger barrel and could take more powerful powder charges if you wished. Your manual should tell you. It might even say somewhere on the barrel what the maximum charge is. I had an Italian-made Enfield that did, although they gave the powder charge in 'drams" and I had to do the conversion to grains to know what they meant.

Not that you should use larger charges, at least not to start. Steve's info is good. What he describes with minnies is about what they used in the Civil War, and heavens know THAT load was a killer. The extra-strong barrel, if indeed you have one, just gives you more options to play around with on the range. And it would comfort me to have that extra margin of strength, even if I never used it.
 
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cuate

Moderator
Zouave

Bought a Zouave replica made in Korea years ago at a gun show in Ft. Worth, $70 bucks. It was a shooter with 58 cal. minie balls. Later when re-enacting couldn't carry it, all said it wasn't Civil War Issue. I always believed iit was.

Bought a 58 cal. copy of what the US and Confederals did carry. Shot both and couldn't hit the side of the barn with the Springfield, the Zouave was plenty accurate !!!!

Glad the battles I fought it weren' for real with that Springfield, the Yanks would have been safe as in their own beds. Zouave was a different story.
 
4

45-70

New member
Thanks for the information!

I appreciate everyone's comments. I also found that the the Dixie Gun Works site recommends a .575 minie ball or a .570 patched round ball over 60 grains of FFg, which goes along with what folks here are saying. I'll give it a try next Sunday at the range, if I can find the right size round balls. I suspect minies will have to come from Dixie or some other mail order black powder shooting supplier.
 
4

4V50 Gary

Staff
I don't think the Zouave was ever issued but kept in reserve. Funny how when we're buying arms from Europe that something that was readily available wasn't issued - even to the Invalid Corps (later renamed Veteran Volunteer Reserves). Stick with 40-60 grains of FF and a Minie. You might want to bum off different weights and makes of minies from people to find out what yours likes best. It's almost like a cartridge gun in figuring out what works best (bullet, powder combination) in these minie-guns.
 
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skeetabop

New member
Spend some time target shooting with it and get used to where it shoots and then go get them deer! Once you use a 58 caliber for deer hunting you won't go back to those 50 caliber pea shooters. I use 85 grains of Select pyrodex and Maxihunters or Buffallo bullets and they have stopped every deer I have shot at. I used a 12 gauge shotgun for 20 years prior to that and that gun is collecting a lot of dust now.
I enjoy target shooting with mine also, they are heavy guns so they absorb a lot of the recoil.
My dad gave me his Black Powder Guide book from 1976. I always get a chuckle reading it. I'm quoting from it; " Navy Arms .58 caliber Zouve is a man's gun and feels really good when it spouts flame, smoke and lead".
Need I say more??

Enjoy!!
 
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Tom2

New member
Zoli

I wonder if yours is made by Zoli. There were some early Zouaves that were made for Navy Arms that were very nice replicas. I got one about 20 years ago from Dixie that was not the best thing in the world. I think the Zolis were just coming in then. Not as well made as the earlier reps. It had a problem right out of the box with a warped lockplate or something. The hammer would stop just at the nipple, would not bust a cap but one out of three tries because of the binding. Sent it back and they fixed. Got some minies from Dixie, but when I tried firing them they all pretty much keyholed. I had no advisor at that time and no net forums existed, so I tried changing the powder load a little and different grease but never got it to shoot right and sold it off. Dixie sells premade minies as well as a few different moulds. Maybe if there is a bullet maker around, you could get them to cast some from a mould you choose. I myself have not cast bullets and really don't want to mess with large quantaties of molten metal, but you might. Good luck and let us know how it shoots. Might shoot high as the front sight on some old rifles is set for a pretty far distance. They were shooting into standing columns of men so I guess if they aimed at the midway of a person, they could get a hit either higher or right on at a long range. I guess they were made with massed fire in mind, with the 19th century tactics.
 
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okiefarmer

New member
Rifle/rifled musket

Hafoc,

As somewhat of a newby to BP long guns, what exactly is the difference in a rifle/rifled musket as per your comment above. I am looking at a Zouave replica by Lyman. Value request is in another thread started today. I noticed this thread is referring to the Navy Arms and other replicas. I looked this one over and everything move smoothe, no binding, but rifleing seemed a bit shallow. Just interested in a shooter, not an investment grade piece, but was curious about your comparison about the rifleing.

Thanks

Edited "that" above to "what" as I was requesting the difference between the rifle/rifled musket; however, 4V50 Gary may have answered in his progressive rifling comment.
 
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4

4V50 Gary

Staff
The rifling might be progressive depth rifling. It's deepest at its breach and then becomes shallower near the muzzle. Tests conducted in the 19th Century have proven this to be the most effective rifling for the minie ball.
 
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okiefarmer

New member
a sample

I don't think I am comfortable uploading the pic from the auction site, for fear of uploading the entire auction description. The auction item number at auctionarms dot com is 7797322, check it out there. This one is a Zoli, a Navy Arms just expired without a bid and a $325 asking price. Hope this helps
 
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faraway

New member
45.70 Watch it with the heavier charges. One of the reasons these were limited in the original period of use was the
tendancy for the 'skirt' to seperate from the main part of the ball. And although the replica Zouave barrels are a bit
heavier than those of a Enfield or Springfield, still not really meant for lots of powder.
If your using paper catridges, might make them from waxed paper. Less prone to have moisture trouble than regular
butcher or craft paper. One the 'tail' of the cartridge, some used to place a cap or two there, but a better route is
to make a paper tube and keep the caps there. 10 or so, that way if one's dropped while loading, the others are close
at hand.
Might shoe polish the fittings temporarily. Not that it matters much, but a Zoauve is somewhat shinier than an Enfield.
And as long as the animal isn't moving, a good RM's more than accurate enough for 100yds. Beyond that the trajectory
is a bit curved, and way beyond that, well that's volley fire territor
 
4

45-70

New member
Thanks

Thanks, Faraway. I'll stick with the lighter charges. I think I will start off with patched round ball, if I can find some .570s. And where I will be hunting, 100 yds is a long shot. Most everything I will see in the way of game will be 75 yards or less. First I have to get acceptable accuracy at the range, though. Assuming I can pick up the right sized lead, I'll try it Sunday and post the results.
 
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faraway

New member
Be interesting to see how it comes out. Have never been inclined to use a rifled musket with a round ball and patch. So know fairly little about the relative accuracy. The minies and paper cartridges are remarkable fast to reload, but that's not that big of a factor while hunting. To add to the somewhat obtuse (useless) information, the overcharges were a big problem in the original expanding bullets for RF Muskets. These had a wood or iron cup in the base of the bullet to ensure expansion, which tended to blow through. By the US civil war, they'd found that the lead skirting was enoug
 
4

45-70

New member
Range Report

Took it to the range today. Fired several shots with patched .570 round balls at 50 yards at a 32in x 36 in target. Then fired on 525 grain Hornady hollow base bullet. None were on paper. Eventually, I shortened the range to 25 yds and was shooting n 8 inch group with 525 Buffalo hollow base hollow points. Well, I can probably get some 25 yard shots at deer next week, so I'm going to give it a try.
 
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4V50 Gary

Staff
Gotta go with the minie ball. For the fun of it, I once tried the same with my Parker-Hale musketoon and got dismal results.

It was asked the difference between the rifle-musket, rifled musket and musket.

Musket - smoothbore weapon with buck & ball (one huge ball and 3 buckshots) for ammo
Rifle-musket. A gun which when originally manufactured was made with the minie-ball in mind as its ammo.
Rifled-musket. A musket that has been rifled for the minie.
 
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Steve499

New member
My experience with patched round .570 balls from my 1861 Springfield is that they shoot better groups than all but one of the different styles of minies I have tried. I know it was designed to shoot minies, but patched round balls like slow twists and it sure has a slow twist! The only deer I have killed with that rifle I got with a patched .570 ball.

As I posted earlier, my only problem is it's hard to ram a patched ball onto the powder with the skinny steel ramrod. The rod is strong enough, just too small and slick to grip well. On the range I load with a range rod but I needed to be able to load with the ramrod the gun carries when I'm hunting, so I drilled a hole about 3/16 deep in the ball of my long starter. Now I can seat the ball fully by putting the end of the ramrod in that hole in the starter and using the ball to push the rod.

Steve
 
4

45-70

New member
Thanks for the advice

4V50 Gary, If I had minie balls, I would try them. As it is, it may be my "justification" for taking up bullet casting.

Steve499, I will keep after the patched ball on your recommendation, until I can figure out where it's shooting. I sort of figured the round ball load shot high, but don't know for sure. Do you recall what powder charge you were using with yours?
 
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