Advice on HKs

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ScotchMan

New member
So, some of you may remember my search for a full-sized .45 auto. I ended up defying almost all of the 163 voters and getting a Beretta PX4 Storm. At first I liked it, but I've found myself unable to get past the "trigger sting" issue which can be found online but was purported to affect almost exclusively .40 S&W models. The magazines also haven't loosened up after a month of use, and its nearly impossible to get the last 1 or 2 rounds in.

At any rate, this thread isn't about that. I'm going back to my original choice between a Sig P220 and HK45/USP, but since that post, I've realized I like a manual safety more than I thought, and I really like the "control lever" with decocker. So HK.

The store I bought the Beretta from has two used HK USP 45 Compacts. One is stainless and stock, for $699.99. The other is black finish, has night sites, and comes with 4 total magazines, and is $749.99. The owner is charging a premium for the stainless one because he believes it isn't made anymore.

He offered me $400 for the Beretta on the spot, but I may be able to work on that as part of a deal.

Questions:

-Is the HK45 a significant improvement over the USP? Should I hold out for one of those? What about the HK45c (I notice it looks the same as the USP while the full-sized HK45 has the new grip pattern).
-Are these prices good? What would you pick (I am partial to stainless but mags are expensive and I would probably buy 3 more anyway)?

Any other advice? I am only interested in HK45s, USPs, and their compact variants at this time.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
Weird. So you went against your initial instincts and were disappointed? I am shocked. :eek:

I always heard the HK45 was a decent improvement over the USP, but hey, who knows?
 
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DBLAction454

New member
The most significant improvement of the HK45 over the USP is the grip.

The USP .45 is a proven pistol. I own a fullsize and its absolutely awesome. Worth every penny and built like a tank. Extremely reliable.

The HK45 full size has gone through a 50,000 round torture test by Todd Green. Once it wasn't cleaned in over 10,000 rounds.

HK makes quality products. Very tough and very reliable. Sorry you didn't go with it the first time. It all comes down to what feels comfortable for you. I don't buy used weapons. That's just me. You can't go wrong with HK in my opinion.

Goodluck!
 
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Turbocharged

New member
I have both a USP (in .40 S&W though) and a HK45. I have put about 2500 rounds though my USP and about 800 rounds through the HK45.

Both are great guns, but I think I prefer the USP. Maybe because it was my first gun or because I had Bill Springfield work on the trigger, but I just feel more natural with it. The HK45 grip feels great and is definitly more comfortable, but I feel I shoot better holding the USP grip.

There are several other difference that make the HK45 better on paper (longer sight radius, more ergonomic grip, front cocking serrations, o-ring barrel), but until you fire both you'll never know which is actually better for you.

With all that said...you really can't go wrong with either because like I said, they are both GREAT guns.
 
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Noreaster

New member
I prefer the grip on the P220. The H&K seems bigger in the grip. I don't care for the H&K LEM trigger. The H&Ks are solid guns. Either one would be a great choice. Sorry to hear about your PX4. My PX4 is a joy to shoot.
 
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Hiker 1

New member
That's a tough one. They're both great guns. I owned a P220 in the past and currently own a USP .45. The Sig was a little smoother but I prefer the extra capacity in the USP.
 
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TxFlyFish

New member
One thing I've noticed is that there are quite few used hk45 on sale ...kinda strange for one of HK flagship guns
 
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Micahweeks

New member
One thing I've noticed is that there are quite few used hk45 on sale ...
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That's more a result of the economy. I've noticed the same trend in my area with several manufacturers. People needing cash will sell what gets them the most. That is unless they are emotionally attached to a gun. It certainly isn't indicative of displeasure with a given platform, at least not right now. If the median income in America had risen 20 or 30% in the past ten years instead of fallen 10%, then it may be a bad sign for the manufacturer. I see tons of good used cars, too, but, once again, that's economics, not bad cars. People just have less money these days.
 
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PSP

New member
The store I bought the Beretta from has two used HK USP 45 Compacts. One is stainless and stock, for $699.99. The other is black finish, has night sites, and comes with 4 total magazines, and is $749.99. The owner is charging a premium for the stainless one because he believes it isn't made anymore.
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HK has produced stainless slides from time to time in limited runs and probably will do so in the future. IMHO, the HK stainless is a thing of beauty, but that's purely aesthetic and personal.

How old are the night sights? HK puts a code date on all of their current production, so that would give you an idea as to the age.

If you want high mag capacity, go with one of the full size guns, either a USP or HK45. If less capacity is OK then the compacts are just as easy to shoot well and give up nothing in recoil abatement.

The good news here is that there are no bad choices. These are all top tier guns. Unless I bumped into a really good deal for a USP, I'd tend toward the newer model, the HK45, with it's grip improvements. If I could go the extra $$, I'd also consider the HK45c, but they are a good bit above the $700 range you're looking at. Of course there'e the HK45c Tactical, aka the MK24, (the replacement for the venerable MK23), but that's even more money. Ahhh...we can all dream. :cool:
 
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Uncle Malice

New member
The owner is charging a premium for the stainless one because he believes it isn't made anymore.
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He is correct. From what I understand, HK is done making the stainless models - at least that's what I've heard from Bud's, CDNN, and others. I'm a big fan of the HK blueing though. It's just got its own unique look to it.

-Is the HK45 a significant improvement over the USP? Should I hold out for one of those? What about the HK45c (I notice it looks the same as the USP while the full-sized HK45 has the new grip pattern).
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Yes.

The HK45(and HK45c) has a better trigger from the factory. You can, of course, send your gun to either Bill Springfield or Bruce Gray to have it worked over. The grip on the HK45 is similar to that of the P30. The grip on the HK45c is that of the P2000. Both are good.

The USP Compact is a great gun to carry though.

-Are these prices good? What would you pick (I am partial to stainless but mags are expensive and I would probably buy 3 more anyway)?
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The price isn't terrible, and if he'll give you 400 trade in for your PX4, it won't cost you much and you'll probably be a happy camper.
 
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ScotchMan

New member
Thanks everyone. Tunnelrat, I actually went with my initial instinct; the PX4 was my dream gun for years before I got my permit. But yes I did go against the popular advice.

There was a used HK45c I looked at for a long time a month ago, I'm going to find out today if its still there. It has the same grip as the USP, so I think that makes it an easier choice. I just don't want to get a USP and then find out I bought old technology and am missing out not having the newer gun.

I don't like the looks of the grips on the full-size HK45.

How about the prices I listed? Good/bad? At this point I'm leaning towards the stainless and I can get mags later.
 
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WVsig

New member
Is the HK45 a significant improvement over the USP? Should I hold out for one of those? What about the HK45c (I notice it looks the same as the USP while the full-sized HK45 has the new grip pattern).
-Are these prices good? What would you pick (I am partial to stainless but mags are expensive and I would probably buy 3 more anyway)?
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For me yes it was but neither one stayed in the save longer than 6 months. The USP IMHO feels like a brick in the hand. The DA trigger is horrible. It is overly stiff when compared to a DA on a Sig P220. The SA is decent but no where near that of a 1911.

The HK45 was an improvement in the grip. It is much more ergonomic for me but the poor DA trigger is still there and if I am going to carry cocked and locked then a 1911 does the trick for me in 45 ACP or I carry a BHP in 9mm. I do not feel the need to CCW a hi-cap 45. YMMV so I sold the HKs and kept buying 1911s.
 
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Adamantium

New member
I too was pretty suprised how bad the USP trigger pull was. Some Border Patrol agents were shooting thier issued guns at USPSA and I was curious so I got a chance to handle them. One guy had 3 that were issued to him and all three had awful DA trigger pulls. Worse than a Ruger P series, which is less than half the price.

Are you using some criteria other than high price when looking at those HK's? Did you ever make it out to El Paso? Come shoot my 1911 before you look at another cookie cutter.
 
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Micahweeks

New member
I just don't want to get a USP and then find out I bought old technology and am missing out not having the newer gun.
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I understand your concern, but trust me when I say your fear in this case is unfounded. The USP is still ahead of the game in the polymer duty weapon market. There are many good reasons one might not like the USP besides "old" technology. Bad fit for their hand. Lower capacity than some of its competitors. Not as compact as others. Expensive mags. Proprietary rail. I could go on. These are all thing we have to individually weigh against the strengths of the guns and our needs and wants.

Me? I carried one on duty, so concealment was a non-issue. I don't need more rounds. I tend to like thicker grips due to my hand size (I actually had to buy Hogue wrap around grips to make a 1911 comfortable). I was provided two mags with the gun and am always willing to pay more for quality mags. I don't often use rail lights.

For me, the strengths of the USP tremendously outweighed the drawbacks, those strengths being toughness, accuracy, reliability, and carry options.

I really like the HK45, too. I'll buy one soon. But my old USP9 is a true workhorse.
 
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ScotchMan

New member
Adamantium, you can look at that other thread to see my longer list of requirements, but the only other real contenders are the Sig P220 or XDm, and I've recently decided I like a manual safety more than I initially thought. That is how I arrived at the HKs.

For me (I am not trying to change anyone's minds because I know I am in the significant minority), 1911s are range toys only. I am not comfortable carrying cocked and locked nor not having ANY double action pull. I am also not comfortable drawing in defense and having to cock the hammer, mostly for legal reasons (you were planning on shooting before you were in fear for your life because you cocked the hammer). 1911s are excellent guns and I will get one someday for sure, but the intended purpose of this gun doesn't mesh with 1911, for me.

I did get out to El Paso, spent the past month there off and on. However I had purchased the Beretta and wasn't dissatisfied, so the search was "off."

I probably won't be back out that way until March-June timeframe.
 
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WVsig

New member
Adamantium, you can look at that other thread to see my longer list of requirements, but the only other real contenders are the Sig P220 or XDm, and I've recently decided I like a manual safety more than I initially thought. That is how I arrived at the HKs.

For me (I am not trying to change anyone's minds because I know I am in the significant minority), 1911s are range toys only. I am not comfortable carrying cocked and locked nor not having ANY double action pull. I am also not comfortable drawing in defense and having to cock the hammer, mostly for legal reasons (you were planning on shooting before you were in fear for your life because you cocked the hammer). 1911s are excellent guns and I will get one someday for sure, but the intended purpose of this gun doesn't mesh with 1911, for me.
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So you are going to carry in DA mode with safety engaged?
 
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