Advice for an AK Newb... Opinions and Suggestions

[shooter_john]

I have some spare cash at the moment and I'm all AR and bolt gunned out. I hav decided that I want a new platform to play with, and I'm pretty sure the AK is where I want to go. Outside of that, I don't really know jack about AK's.

Here are my must haves...
223/ 5.56- I'm already heavily invested in this cartridge and I am not goingto get into another chambering.
Folding stock- that's about it... I just want a folding stock on it plain and simple.
Ability to mount a red dot on the front end- leaning toward the Ultimak or Midwest Industries rail system on this front, but nothing decided at this time.

Here is what I've been reading...
Arsenal is the best, and I should go with a 106 variant. I can't really find anything I don't like about the folding stocked 106, and that is probably the way I'll end up going unless you guys really sell me on something different. My budget is around $900 not including optics.

So, what do you guys suggest or what advice can you offer?
Thanks in advance!

 

[bigghoss]

from your post I'd say you are on track already and have made a great selection.

 

[okiewita40]

You may also want to look into a saiga in .223. Add another $150 or so and do the conversion and you would be set. Or you could just leave it stock.

 

[tobnpr]

Don't know much about this subject, so flame away if I'm wrong...

But I have read that an AK-47 in .223 or 5.56 just does not work well due to the shape of the round.

The 7.62 x 39 round works in the curved AK mags due to their shape, the 5.56 does not... any truth to that?

 

[Nitesites]

Thought different mags were used...5.56 specific mags, 7.62 specific mags, 5.45 specific mags. But the only experience with AK's I have is with my 7.62.

 

[Skans]

A few thoughts.

1. I don't see any reason for owning a 5.56 Ak. It was made for 7.62, that's what most people want, that's what has most parts etc are made for, and that is what is going to be easier to sell if/when you don't want it anymore. 7.62 ammo is really cheap - if you are looking at Arsenal under folders, you can afford the cheap 7.62 ammo. You only need the cheap stuff.

2. Make sure whatever you buy has a chrome lined barrel.

3. Personally, I don't like any of the 1mm stamped receivers. 1.5 or 1.6 mm stamped receivers are just fine. Have I ever heard of a 1mm receiver breaking? No. I just don't like their flimsy feel.

4. If you are going to get a "folder", make it an under folder. It's an AK, not an
FN so don't try to make it into an FN.

 

[zombieslayer]

I think you picked the best one for what you're looking for. Go for it. Fwiw- I also like side folders.

 

[JHansenAK47]

1. I don't see any reason for owning a 5.56 Ak.

I have found the 223/556 and 545 rifles to be more accurate, flatter shooting and more mildly recoiling than the 762x39 rifles that I own.

It was made for 7.62

They were originally designed for that caliber. According to that logic they shouldn't produce 6.5 grendel or 6.8 SPC AR rifles.

that's what most people want

It doesn't matter what other people want. It matters what you want and what it is to be used for.

that's what has most parts etc are made for

Spare parts are available at KVAR. Usually you don't need a lot of parts for an AK.

that is what is going to be easier to sell if/when you don't want it anymore.

About the same where I live.

7.62 ammo is really cheap

The russian made ammo Ie wolf, tula, silver bear are pretty close in the 223 and 762x39 calibers. They do have the cheap yugo 762x39 at the moment but if you aren't stacking it deep that is only a temporary thing.
If you want cheap then 545 is the way to go. 545 is so cheap they are making AR uppers to take advantage of it. I shoot my 545 rifle more than any other "evil black rifle" I own because of how cheap the ammo is.

Personally, I don't like any of the 1mm stamped receivers. 1.5 or 1.6 mm stamped receivers are just fine. Have I ever heard of a 1mm receiver breaking? No. I just don't like their flimsy feel.

The thicker receivers prevent the receiver from flexing which does affect accuracy but given that the 223 is much milder recoiling than 762x39 the affect of that is minimal.

If you are going to get a "folder", make it an under folder. It's an AK, not an
FN so don't try to make it into an FN.

I have to say that I disagree with this statement on so many levels. The underfolders offset you on your cheek weld which is uncomfortable. Closed they cover the safety. Making it difficult to manipulate. The stock can be folded open and closed on a 30 rd mag but if you use a drum or a 45rd mag it will hit the mag. You can't have a scope rail with an underfolder. Worst thing is even if you have a brand new underfolder and the stock is solid as a rock it will develop play in it's lockup.
Polymer and triangle sidefolders on the other hand have solid lockups. They are practically fixed stocks when extended. The big drawback to them is when you have a scope mounted on your scoperail you can't close and lock your stock because it will hit the scopemount. Though having a forward mount is always an option.

But I have read that an AK-47 in .223 or 5.56 just does not work well due to the shape of the round.

The 7.62 x 39 round works in the curved AK mags due to their shape, the 5.56 does not... any truth to that?

545 mags were used with a replacement follower for US domestic use on 223/556 rifles. The difference between the curvature of the 545 and 556 would cause binding issues in the converted 545 mags. If your mag isn't a converted mag you won't have that issue.

Thought different mags were used...5.56 specific mags, 7.62 specific mags, 5.45 specific mags.

762x39 and 545 magazines were standardized by the soviet union. All manufacture of said magazines are interchangeable.
223/556 was never standardized. Bulgarian mags aren't interchangeable to chinese or the galil etc.
The current bulgarian mags (arsenal) are actually 3rd generation. They had to iron some kinks out of the previous two generations. MY Arsenal SLR106FR is one of the newer ones and works great.

 

[shooter_john]

Well I taught myself yet another lesson in never say never. It turns out that NOBODY (at least of the couple of dozen places I called) has or expects an Arsenal 106 anytime in the forseeable future.
But, one of those places (my local shop as luck may have it) did tell me that he had just taken in a used/ unfired (everything was still wrapped up) Polish Tantal that he would sell me for $360. I went and looked at it and I must say that as far as AK's go it was the tightest gun I've handled. The trigger was downright impressive for a "cheap" gun and I was just generally impressed with it as much as one can be impressed by Century Arms. So I'm taking the plunge on it, got the gun and five mags for $395 and tax. Next up is a crate of ammo from AIM and if all goes well I'll pick up the MI guards and a red dot of some sort. Thanks for all your suggestions and thoughts.

I'll post up some pics and a range report ASAP.

 

[Skans]

JHansen - those were just my thoughts on what the OP was looking for. I went through the process of researching the various US receiver - parts set AK's a few years ago. I have also owned one of the Polytech stamped receiver AK's and have compared it to some of the US made AK's. These are obviously just personal opinions - but they are issues that I found important when selecting a US made AK. Not everyone is going to share these opinions, I understand that.

 

[JHansenAK47]

did tell me that he had just taken in a used/ unfired (everything was still wrapped up) Polish Tantal that he would sell me for $360. I went and looked at it and I must say that as far as AK's go it was the tightest gun I've handled. The trigger was downright impressive for a "cheap" gun and I was just generally impressed with it as much as one can be impressed by Century Arms

The century tantals don't have chromelined barrels so make sure you take the time to clean the barrel after shooting any corrosive primer surplus ammo.(Not sure if they started out production with original polish chromelined barrels but they currently use nonchromed US barrels) Also the century tantals have been know to keyhole so if you are having that issue google century tantal barrels and read up on the subject. If not don't worry about it. Another thing to note is the wire sidefolders can easily be switched out for a fixed stock as they mount on to the rifle the same way if you don't like it. (wire stocks hurt my face while shooting)

JHansen - those were just my thoughts on what the OP was looking for.

Not everyone is going to share these opinions, I understand that.

It's not a personal attack. So don't take it as such. I didn't agree with some of your points so I presented my counterpoints.

 

[shooter_john]

Thanks for all of the continued help guys. I have read, contemplated, and second guessed myself to death just about, and I really don't want to **** away my hard earned $$$. I think I'll cancel the CAI Polish deal, just so I can sleep better.

The Bulgarian I've had my eye on is from Atlantic Arms and includes the original, chrome lined Bulgarian barrel, a fixed stock (which would have to fit me better than the Polish wire), and three mags. The price difference between the two would be less than $70 by the time I paid tax on the Tantal. The builder of the Bulgarian rifleis not mentioned on the Atlantic ad, but i'm not finding anything but good reviews on the Bulgarian kit guns.

I've got 2 tins of Russian fodder on the way, so whatever I end up with will have ammo here waiting on it.

 

[JHansenAK47]

If you are refering to the Bulgarian AK 74 @ atlantic for 469 the product description notes the barrel only as US made. I may be looking at a different one then you are. My point though is US made AK barrels are typically not chromelined. Chromelining cost money and on a US barrel I imagine that they would want to advertise both the fact that it is US made which counts as a compliance part and chromed which costs extra $ to do.

Atlantic has both an email and customer service phone number. I'm sure they would be happy to answer any questions you may have abour their firearms.

 

[ace4059]

About two months ago I got the urge to buy an AK. I knew nothing about this rifle nor about the 7.62 x 39 cartridge that it fires. I am the type of person that will usually do extensive research before I buy a gun. But some times I will just go out on a whelm and get one. I am the type of person that once I buy a gun, I hold on to it and will not sell it.

At first I was like you and I have mainly .223 guns, so I wanted a .223 AK. What I discovered is that the AK was not designed to run the .223 round, and it was modified to adapt this round, and because of this there are a few problems. Larry Vickers has even said that the AK in .223 has some reliability problems and it jams. My conclusion from all the reading was to get it in the 7.62.

I just wanted an AK, and I didn't want to spend a lot of money on this gun. I figured maybe 450 or 500 would be my limit. They all function the same right? Well that's what some say on the internet at least. So I was just going to go get me a cheap WASR 10 and be done with it. All I knew was I had to have one with the fold under stock, because in my vision when I though of an AK, that was what it should look like. No gun store in town had one. So I called an online store to order one that day. I asked a few questions about the under folder and I was talked out of ordering one. I was told they are very uncomfortable and I more than likely, would not be happy with it. So I hung up and did not order one. I figured I would do more research before buying one. I still wanted a cheap AK because I figure I would see if I liked it and later on I would buy me a nice one.

After doing some research I read several times on different forums that polish AK's were highly recommended. I called Atlantic fire arms because I was going to order their high dollar polish AK. I found out their was not much difference between the high dollar polish AK and the cheaper polish AK. He recommend a Vector or an Arsenal AK because there was not much of a dollar difference between the high dollar polish AK. So I decided to hold off and to wait on my purchase once again and to do more research.

All the information I read pointed me towards the Arsenal AK. I knew I would eventually get one, so why waste my money on a cheaper one and then have to spend more on a nicer one. in the end I figured why take the chance to order in a AK, and have all the problems that you hear on the internet about the canted front sights, bad triggers, parts that don't fit, mag wells that are loose, and other problems.

I would recommend you stick with the Arsenal AK if you can afford it. Yes they do cost a little more but they are worth it. I would compare Arsenal to the AK as Colt is to the AR.

As far as the under folding stock, I was talked out of it by Atlantic fire arms and I am happy I did got a solid stock. I am also happy they talked me into getting the Arsenal AK. I did however try to get a side folding stock, but they are hard to come by. The folding stock on the arsenal has the Warsaw length but the folding bracket adds about 2" to that stock length (which that makes the length equal to a NATO stock). So I got a fixed stock in the NATO length. Come to find out, the NATO was a little long and replaced it with the WARSAW length. I am now also glad I didn't get the side folding stock because I could not have made it shorter.

I hope that insight might help you out.

 

[RT]

Very happy with my Arsenal ALR-106. No issues. I only use Circle 10 mags and stay away from Promag. Accuracy is on par with a stock AR and the 2 stage trigger is a nice addition.
Next bonus will go to a Ultimak rail and an Aimpoint H-1

Edit to add

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16457

 

[shooter_john]

That was insightful Ace, and my story ended in an almost identical fashion. I ended up with a fixed stock Arsenal SG 31 in 5.45x39 and two spam cans of Russian surplus. I still came out under $1k so I'm pleases with that, and I'm looking forward to getting the rifle in hand next week.

That is also a great looking rifle you've got RT.

Pics and range reports to follow!

 

[Skans]

I like that Arsenal AK. Looks nice.

 

[RT]

Good choice. I am really lusting after a SGL-31 since I was given about 3500 rounds of 5.45.

 

[shooter_john]

Well here she is... I added the MI rail system with a US Palm top cover fitted for the Aimpoint Ti. For the time being it will wear the Primary Arms Micro Dot until I can afford the real deal Aimpoint. I had also been given the M3 rifle light so I put that on as well, and I think I have quite a formidable system here. I got to shoot it just a little bit last weekend and I was exceptionally pleased with the rifle. The last pic is my new comrade featured with a couple of it's western cousins/ safemates.