"Accuracy/Bullseye" shooters.. What helped you most?

[MrWesson]

I'm obsessed with off hand pistol accuracy lately.

What do I mean? Fist sized or smaller groups at 25yds and beyond in a slow fire environment. You know just shooting and not really self defense training as a whole(although it has crossed over).

Some things that I think have helped me but may be a placebo...

Grip training. Basically those spring loaded grip exercisers.

Stability strength.. Holding a 10lb weight in the firing position one handed for as long as possible(and sometimes in circles).

Just do those things when I'm bored around the house maybe 2-3 times a day.

Things I do.
Shoot long range(100yd on steel)
Focus front sight
Call the shot
Dry fire at home
Dummy rounds as flinch test

Things i'm considering.
Lessons with pro shooters
More strength training.
Work on breathing/shooting.

Anyone reading this Don't take this as advice. I'm here to try to learn something that I may be doing wrong or that I can do. I'm no expert.

Am I wasting my time with the grip training and stability stuff?

 

[ThomasT]

I learned to shoot a handgun by practicing every day with a crosman 1377 pump pellet pistol. The gun had a crappy trigger. But it was accurate. If you could shoot that gun and make hits you could shoot anything.

I never did any hand excersises but I use to install skirting on mobile homes. A lot of skirting. I did a couple of hundred linier feet every time I skirted a house. Thats a lot of cutting with a pair of metal shears.

I guess I am a fair shot now. I used to have a shelf full of trophies for shooting falling plate matches. I normally outshoot any cop I shoot against. Even when I use their own gun. So shooting well is like anything else. Lots and lots of practice.

 

[Sevens]

I will say something that is not a popular opinion on most discussion forums. I will preface it by saying that I am not a competitor and I simply do not have the skills to produce eye-popping slow fire handgun groups on demand, especially at a distance beyond 12 yards.

However.

I have found that CONFIDENCE is a huge part of the equation and here comes the unpopular part: if you can arrange for yourself a session with a truly accurate, precision handgun, you can boost your confidence. It can/will show you that it's you, it's all you that is going to determine what kind of a target you can produce.

This is simply not the case when you completely blur the entire picture with an average, run of the mill handgun and the cheapest $12 box of ammo that is behind the shop counter.

I have known and accepted this is a fact for quite a long time and I can prove (easily, quickly and surely) on paper targets, on demand. I'm to the point where I have some handguns that have intrinsic abilities that (far) surpass my own. But make no mistake, and no matter how many folks will opine otherwise: I also have a safe full of (terrific, useful, enjoyable and totally lovable!) handguns that do not.

One of the most used phrases on handgun discussion forums are "the gun is more accurate than I am" and perhaps for many shooters... it is. But when your years and years of slow-fire practice behind handguns adds up and you get to the point where you CAN shoot very, very decent groups most of the time, you can and you absolutely will see the difference on paper (immediately) when you try to produce a small, slow fire group with a BETTER and more capable handgun.

I hope nobody twists my words.
No, you don't need a $2,000 handgun to shoot well.
No, you will not forever be average or lousy if you only want to own or shoot $500 handguns.

Not what I am saying.

I am saying: when you can shoot well all of the time with an average production handgun... try something truly elite and just see what you can do. Do it a few times, and then try to replicate it with your favorite Ruger SR-9.

 

[SIGSHR]

Breath control was what I had to work on the most.

 

[dgludwig]

Sight alignment (centering the front sight with the rear but "focusing" on the front sight) and proper trigger squeeze are the two most essential elements to accurate shooting. Breath control, grip, follow-through and stance follow closely behind. All of these factors acting in concert, plus plenty of practice, will deliver bullets consistently closer to the "x" mark on the bullseye and, speaking as a long time Bullseye competitor, there are no shortcuts to accurate shooting.
And, no, I don't think you're wasting your time with your physical exercises.

 

[MrBorland]

Am I wasting my time with the grip training and stability stuff?

I'm no pro, but my thought is "probably". Your grip has to be consistent. Though a firm grip is important, you don't have to have a walnut-crushing grip for consistency.

As far as stability, you'd be surprised how well you can shoot with a wobble. If you're stable enough to keep your wobble within the black, your shots will be in the black IF (and ONLY IF) your sight alignment and trigger control (i.e. release) are good. Otherwise, the shot will go wild, even with a very stable hold. Your wobble can affect your shot, however, if you let the wobble get in your head; in which case the shot goes wild, not because of the wobble per se, but because you freaked a bit and made an emotional decision to take the shot. Which brings me to my other point...

...In addition to sight alignment and release, getting my head in the right place is critical as well. In particular, not "wanting" to shoot a good group. I've written it numerous times, but the target's merely a recording device, so it's counterproductive to worry about it. When I shoot my best, I just focus solely on executing each shot well, letting the target take care of itself. I check it only after (strong emphasis on "only" and "after") I'm done shooting, and it should confirm what I already know. When I concern myself with the goal (a good group) or my wobble, my efforts at sight alignment and trigger control - the real keys to shooting well - are for naught.

 

[Mike38]

MrWesson, look around for a US Army marksmanship unit small arms firing school (pistol) at a range near you. I attended one back when I shot Bullseye competitively. It helped me more than anything else did. The one I attended was at a range about 100 miles from me, and it was well worth the drive. The range hosted and paid for it, at no cost to participants. It was limited enrollment, so if you see / hear of one near you, jump on it quick. It was about 4 hours classroom, then 2 hours on the range.

Also, if you don't have a pistol that is capable of 10 ring groups at 50 yards, you will never know your potential. You are wasting your time and money shooting anything less. Many people start with less than Bullseye accurate pistols, and think that they can upgrade when they get better. Most of those people give up long before that time, thinking they can never do it.

Not that I was that good myself, but I did see my scores jump up after the Army school, then again after spending the money on good equipment.

 

[saleen322]

I started competitive shooting in silhouette so bringing the distance down to 50 yards in Conventional, seemed close then. I agree with what most folks said about technique and I will add the importance of follow through. I agree sight alignment and trigger control are first but I believe follow through is a close second. I shot some international air pistol and it made me a much better shooter overall. Because of the lower velocity, you have to follow though to get decent scores. My scores went up in all disciplines after that.

It sounds like you are on the right path and best of luck to you.

 

[DMY]

All good advice

I believe all of the suggestions are good ones. Expanding on two of the themes, these two thoughts are something which have crossed my mind as I have been reloading lately. I'm not sure if this is basic logic or something which only makes sense to me.
If your handgun and the load you use are capable of shooting 1" groups at a certain distance and you are only capable of shooting 2" groups at that same distance, it seems that the best you can hope for is to shoot 3" groups. However, if your gun and load are only able to shoot 3" groups at that same distance and your capability remains the same at 2" groups, then the best you can hope for is 5" groups at that distance.
As I have refined a few loads to shoot under 1" groups at my preferred distance, I have more confidence that my gun will do its part, IF I DO MY PART. This motivates me to concentrate more which inevitably improves my technique. On the other hand, I find that if shoot the first few rounds of a different load which is not performing as well, then my confidence (or more accurately, my motivation) to shoot well decreases, as do my results.
When I used to shoot a lot of trap and skeet, I found that when I really concentrate, hitting a clay pigeon was pretty easy. The only reason I, or other similar experienced shooters missed, was because they had a lapse in concentration. Once you develop to a certain level of technical proficiency (not necessarily an expert proficiency), then it becomes much more of a mental game.

 

[walnut1704]

I think I'd drop the steel at 100 yards. If you want to shoot fist-sized groups (what is that? 4"?) at 25 yards, shoot at 25 yards. Train for the goal. The rest of the stuff is good.

100 rounds a week is better than 400 rounds once a month.

 

[ThomasT]

Breath control was what I had to work on the most.

Lifesavers and Tic Tacs are your friends.

 

[Bill West]

What is meant by follow through in shooting? I've never been clear on that.

 

[AzShooter]

Try to keep your sight on target after the shot so you can call your hits. Yes there is recoil and the gun is going to more but the more you keep seeing your sights the better your groups will be.

 

[Radny97]

This thread is really helpful to me. Thanks to all contributing!

 

[1stmar]

I don't know I agree w dropping the steel at 100 yards. That requires all the same skills and boosts confidence. You may want to go from steel to paper and shoot groups at 100 always striving to improve. Generally shooting steel does not improve group size as it promotes any hit is good enough. While not the most important, it starts w body alignment. Set yourself up for a good string. Make sure you rest between shots. Focus on front sight and when you have the sight picture you want change your mental focus to easing the trigger. Trigger control is essential I also agree with follow through. Follow the sights as long as you can.

If your shooting 4" groups at 25 yards your doing pretty good.

Recognize you will have off days and imo don't waste the ammo and time. When I am off its almost impossible to get it back to my potential that day.

 

[David R]

I shot bullseye for many years. Its an aquired skill. In the end its all in your head. If you can relax and shoot consistantly, you will do fine. Its more important yo enjoy the sport. Don't be lilke folks that play golf and get all Peed off at the game.

Just trying to get back into the game. Shooting a Buckmark target wit a V something custom barrel and a Red dot sight.

The last good piece of advice I got about Technique was from Elmer Glodpenny, he said Push the gun into the target. It seems to work.

David

 

[rodfac]

I was a bullseye NRA shooter for 12-15 years when in my 20s and 30's. Like you, I used a tennis ball or grip exerciser to help with my .45 shooting...and it helped give me a far better (read consistent) grip with the big gun.

I also did the weight training, adding weight to the barrel of the gun to enhance my training regimen. Dry fire is a must as well, though I've always felt a bit guilty dropping that hammer on an empty chamber. Never broke a firing pin however.

When possible, shooting on one of the service academy teams, we would practice using a 'ball and dummy' scenario. Our coach would load the gun for us, then we'd make the shot...any tendency to flinch or pull the shot would be immediately apparent. It was and still is nerve racking to do this for any extended period of time however.

I learned from coaches that were the absolute best...very lucky in that regard. Nowadays, there seem to be lots of self-proclaimed experts running 'defensive' training hand gun schools...sorting them out and picking one that truly knows what they're teaching is the hard part. As for Bullseye, NRA competition, I know of no one now doing any instruction.

You might try the CMP's site for helpful tips. ODCMP is the search moniker. They used to have really good info from the Camp Perry oriented Armed Service teams on most any discipline you are interested in.

HTH's Rod

 

[MrWesson]

One of the most used phrases on handgun discussion forums are "the gun is more accurate than I am" and perhaps for many shooters... it is. But when your years and years of slow-fire practice behind handguns adds up and you get to the point where you CAN shoot very, very decent groups most of the time, you can and you absolutely will see the difference on paper (immediately) when you try to produce a small, slow fire group with a BETTER and more capable handgun.

You might be right. The most accurate centerfire handgun I own is a CZ75.

I mentioned bullseye and I have shot a match or 3 but most of this is just for my own enjoyment. Bullseye competitions are rare near me for some reason.

Breath control was what I had to work on the most.

I have put about 0 minutes of research into this.. Thanks.

Sight alignment (centering the front sight with the rear but "focusing" on the front sight) and proper trigger squeeze are the two most essential elements to accurate shooting. Breath control, grip and stance follow closely behind. All of these factors acting in concert, plus plenty of practice, will deliver bullets consistently closer to the "x" mark on the bullseye and, speaking as a long time Bullseye competitor, there are no shortcuts to accurate shooting.
And, no, I don't think you're wasting your time with your physical exercises.

Good to know.

Worst case scenario I will be able to gorrilla crush some a-hole's hand I don't like while shaking it.

MrWesson, look around for a US Army marksmanship unit small arms firing school (pistol) at a range near you. I attended one back when I shot Bullseye competitively. It helped me more than anything else did. The one I attended was at a range about 100 miles from me, and it was well worth the drive. The range hosted and paid for it, at no cost to participants. It was limited enrollment, so if you see / hear of one near you, jump on it quick. It was about 4 hours classroom, then 2 hours on the range.

Also, if you don't have a pistol that is capable of 10 ring groups at 50 yards, you will never know your potential. You are wasting your time and money shooting anything less. Many people start with less than Bullseye accurate pistols, and think that they can upgrade when they get better. Most of those people give up long before that time, thinking they can never do it.

Not that I was that good myself, but I did see my scores jump up after the Army school, then again after spending the money on good equipment.

Thanks for the tip I will definitely look into it.

Your advice mirrors that of a few other posters and seems like I may need a very accurate gun to test my abilities.

I started competitive shooting in silhouette so bringing the distance down to 50 yards in Conventional, seemed close then. I agree with what most folks said about technique and I will add the importance of follow through. I agree sight alignment and trigger control are first but I believe follow through is a close second. I shot some international air pistol and it made me a much better shooter overall. Because of the lower velocity, you have to follow though to get decent scores. My scores went up in all disciplines after that.

It sounds like you are on the right path and best of luck to you.

Thanks I hope so. I'll shop for a good airgun. As a bonus I can shoot in my backyard(1acre backstop/I shoot .22's here too).

I believe all of the suggestions are good ones. Expanding on two of the themes, these two thoughts are something which have crossed my mind as I have been reloading lately. I'm not sure if this is basic logic or something which only makes sense to me.
If your handgun and the load you use are capable of shooting 1" groups at a certain distance and you are only capable of shooting 2" groups at that same distance, it seems that the best you can hope for is to shoot 3" groups. However, if your gun and load are only able to shoot 3" groups at that same distance and your capability remains the same at 2" groups, then the best you can hope for is 5" groups at that distance.
As I have refined a few loads to shoot under 1" groups at my preferred distance, I have more confidence that my gun will do its part, IF I DO MY PART. This motivates me to concentrate more which inevitably improves my technique. On the other hand, I find that if shoot the first few rounds of a different load which is not performing as well, then my confidence (or more accurately, my motivation) to shoot well decreases, as do my results.
When I used to shoot a lot of trap and skeet, I found that when I really concentrate, hitting a clay pigeon was pretty easy. The only reason I, or other similar experienced shooters missed, was because they had a lapse in concentration. Once you develop to a certain level of technical proficiency (not necessarily an expert proficiency), then it becomes much more of a mental game.

This hit close to home. I do reload and it sounds like I need to do some handgun bench testing my loads.

I think I'd drop the steel at 100 yards. If you want to shoot fist-sized groups (what is that? 4"?) at 25 yards, shoot at 25 yards. Train for the goal. The rest of the stuff is good.

100 rounds a week is better than 400 rounds once a month.

I already shoot fist sized groups @ 25yds. That statement was just meant to narrow down shooters who can do that or better and what helped them get there.

I don't shoot bullseye but those are the types of shooters who do aspire to get tight slow fire groups. Something i'm doing just because I like it.

I like shooting long distance with handguns. I find it extremely satisfying to hit an 8" gong @ 100yds with a pistol.. Its not easy at all(and I can't do it every time). Just trying to keep shooting entertaining so I can do what I really enjoy.. Reloading.

I don't know I agree w dropping the steel at 100 yards. That requires all the same skills and boosts confidence. You may want to go from steel to paper and shoot groups at 100 always striving to improve. Generally shooting steel does not improve group size as it promotes any hit is good enough. While not the most important, it starts w body alignment. Set yourself up for a good string. Make sure you rest between shots. Focus on front sight and when you have the sight picture you want change your mental focus to easing the trigger. Trigger control is essential I also agree with follow through. Follow the sights as long as you can.

If your shooting 4" groups at 25 yards your doing pretty good.

Recognize you will have off days and imo don't waste the ammo and time. When I am off its almost impossible to get it back to my potential that day.

I can shoot 4" groups @ 25yds... Can I do it on demand everytime? Hell no.

I shoot an 8" gong @ 100yds and find it to be just as if not more challenging. I don't think i'm capable of getting a consistent 8" group at 100yds... Ever.

I shot bullseye for many years. Its an aquired skill. In the end its all in your head. If you can relax and shoot consistantly, you will do fine. Its more important yo enjoy the sport. Don't be lilke folks that play golf and get all Peed off at the game.

Just trying to get back into the game. Shooting a Buckmark target wit a V something custom barrel and a Red dot sight.

The last good piece of advice I got about Technique was from Elmer Glodpenny, he said Push the gun into the target. It seems to work.

David

I've shot bullseye before and would like to get involved but can't find any matches nearby.

This stuff is just for my own enjoyment right now.

I was a bullseye NRA shooter for 12-15 years when in my 20s and 30's. Like you, I used a tennis ball or grip exerciser to help with my .45 shooting...and it helped give me a far better (read consistent) grip with the big gun.

I also did the weight training, adding weight to the barrel of the gun to enhance my training regimen. Dry fire is a must as well, though I've always felt a bit guilty dropping that hammer on an empty chamber. Never broke a firing pin however.

When possible, shooting on one of the service academy teams, we would practice using a 'ball and dummy' scenario. Our coach would load the gun for us, then we'd make the shot...any tendency to flinch or pull the shot would be immediately apparent. It was and still is nerve racking to do this for any extended period of time however.

I learned from coaches that were the absolute best...very lucky in that regard. Nowadays, there seem to be lots of self-proclaimed experts running 'defensive' training hand gun schools...sorting them out and picking one that truly knows what they're teaching is the hard part. As for Bullseye, NRA competition, I know of no one now doing any instruction.

You might try the CMP's site for helpful tips. ODCMP is the search moniker. They used to have really good info from the Camp Perry oriented Armed Service teams on most any discipline you are interested in.

HTH's Rod

I hear you on that.

Defensive training is important but shooting is fun and being serious all the time gets exhausting. In the end we're just putting holes in paper.

I'm going to put up an effort to find some sort of slow fire marksmanship training.. I'll find something.

 

[T. O'Heir]

Upper body tone. Not necessarily holding a 10 lb. weight up. Your back and shoulders are what holds the weight up. If you have them toned, holding a 2ish pound pistol up isn't as hard as it sounds. Off season archery is good for upper body tone.
And "in your head", like David R says. If you have things on your mind, it's hard to concentrate.

 

[Big Shrek]

Trigger Time...and I mean ANY trigger time you can get, helps.

Sport Shooting USA, Area 51, Police Trainer, Time Crisis II, etc...
Its all aim & squeeze, practice practice practice...

Granted, it does NOTHING for actual reloading drills, few give actual recoil,
and they are, well, video games...
but for all that, they give trigger time, practice of target recognition & aquisition,
follow-thru, rapid-fire drills, importance of proper & consistant grip, proper Stance,
and you will quickly see your scores at GSSF/IDPA/IPSC/etc go up,
as your video game scores increase.

Heck, have you got a WII bangtoy?? PS4 with pistol? Xbox with pistol?
Even Duck Hunt on an old Nintendo Light Gun is good.
Its just more practice. Keep it up.
DO NOT do it on the couch, stand UP, get your stances down pat!!
Even better, you can WALK as you shoot, forwards & to the rear, side to side!!
Learn the best times to shoot on the move for YOU!!

Other benefits...its warm & dry inside an arcade or your home
You recognize staged target sets & know the fastest ways of getting thru them
at the IDPA/IPSC/GSSF meets. Especially if you play Sport Shooting USA...
Playing Games even helped my SASS scores!! That is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FIREARMS DISCIPLINE!!
But it all boils down to practice & consistancy of aiming, stances, and grip...
you get those down pat, and you can literally pick up ANY firearm and do well!!


If you have the money/reloading skills to plunk down for 250-500 rounds a week,
live action practice at a range, well good for you...it was enjoyable when single...LOL
but most married folks ain't got that kinda flow...so we have to utilize alternative methods
to get our practice, consistancy, and get smooth & fast