A question on the Constitution.

[iso1]

Concerning the U.S. Constitution, specifically Article IV, Sections 1 and 2:

Article. IV.

Section. 1.

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Section. 2.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.


Why then do some states not allow non-resident ccw permits? And how can other states refuse to accept an out-of-state permit?

For instance, I have a Nevada CFP, but Ohio (and a lot of other states) doesn't recognize it. I'd be arrested and imprisoned if I carry concealed (or openly, for that matter) in Ohio.

Does this part of the Constitution not apply to State Laws?

Just curious.

Thanks.

 

[mdlowry]

The Constitution has no bearing on our government today. The government disreguards it as they see fit.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Should

 

[KSFreeman]

"It [treating blacks as citizens] would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognized as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased singly or in companies . . .; and it would give them the full liberty of speech . . .; to hold public meetings on political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went." Dred Scott v. Sanford, 60 U.S. (19 How.) 393, 417 (1857).

Of course, that was a long time ago. Now we are governed by our feelings and THE CHILDREN, instead of the Constitution.

 

[40ozflatfoot]

As I understand it, the article refers to the application of federal laws to the citizens and to the states. If you recall, the nation was new then, with a lot of unexplored territory that could later be admitted to the union as a state. What the article says is that all the laws then extant would also apply to the new states and the citizens living there in the same way as it already applied to the existing states and citizens.

So, if Puerto Rico were to be admitted to the US, all the laws now on the books would also apply in Puerto Rico.

 

[KSFreeman]

Huh?

 

[C.R.Sam]

I think there is a test ongoing wherein a married same sex couple, whose marriage is binding in Hawaii, had the legitimacy of their marriage contested when they moved to another state.

Scratchin the memory cells here.

But if it flys, could have use for gunowners etc.

Of course all the states recognize the drivers licenses of other states........for a limited time.

Sam

 

[LonWilson]

And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Congress could tommorow repeal the law requiring recognition of driver's from non-residents. I believe they also did the same for the federal Defense of Marraige act, which gave the states the local option to override requiring absolute recognition of marraige when the two are of the same sex.

 

[mdlowry]

Sam, your memory is sill fine. I also remember hearing of it. I don't think I ever heard what the outcome of it was though.

 

[garrettwc]

by iso1
Why then do some states not allow non-resident ccw permits? And how can other states refuse to accept an out-of-state permit?

Article 10

The powers not delegated to the United States by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

AKA States Rights.

Meaning since there is no federal legislation on the books that provides for CCW the states can make up any rules they want. Subject only to the government's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment which usually leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[iso1]

Walther:

Does that mean that Article 10 renders Article 4 null and void?

Sam:
Here in Nevada during the last election, the People voted to amend the State Constitution so marriage could only be between a man and a woman.

They did that out of fear of having to recognize a same sex marriage performed legally in other states.

Of course, the U.S. Constitution still overrides the state, but that didn't stop them.

Although maybe not, if Article 10 means the States may do whatever they want.

 

[garrettwc]

by iso1
Walther:

Does that mean that Article 10 renders Article 4 null and void?

iso1, read it again. It says if there is no prevailing federal or constitutional law then the states may do as they please.

Since Article 4 is part of the constitution and has not been repealed by any other amendment specifically, as the 18th(prohibition) was, then Article 4 is force of law and may not be ignored by states.

 

[another okie]

I've never heard of a federal law requiring states to recognize the marriages or drivers' licenses of other states. If there is such a law, tell me where.

I think they do it as a courtesy or a matter of state law. This priniciple is known as "comity."

The U.S. Supreme Court has generally interpreted this provision of our Constitution as applying to court proceedings and judgments rather than licenses, and has allowed a "public policy" exception. In other words, if the public policy of a state would be violated by recognizing another state's paper, they don't have to do it. If one state allowed nine-year olds to drive drunk, I suspect other states would find a way to keep them out.

And as nice as it would be to use my Oklahoma CCW to carry in Illinois, I'd rather have the states be strong and have the Supreme Court support their sovreignty.

Christmas v. Russell, 72 U.S. (5 Wall) 290, 18 L.Ed. 475 and lots of other cases.