A question I think I know the answer on already

[Chris_B]

Hows this:

9mm parabellum vs. 9x19mm

I see on the same website, virtually right next to each other, a listing for 9mm "Luger" ammo, and 9x19mm ammo

Now, my understanding is that 9mm "Luger" is 9x19mm

So, am I looking at two people using two different ways to annotate the ammo on that website, or am I actually seeing a difference? I see no difference at all. The 9x19 is not called out as "NATO", "Luger" or "parabellum". Just "9x19"

 

[berettaprofessor]

No difference, although I've seen reference that the 9 mm Nato is loaded a little hotter than 9 mm Lugar and perhaps the former shouldn't be used in pre-80's guns. Both are 9X19.

 

[Frank Ettin]

9mm Parabellum, 9x19, 9mm Luger and 9mm NATO are all the same cartridge.

9mm Short, 9mm Kurz, 9x17 and .380 ACP are all the same cartridge.

 

[Chris_B]

thanks, this confirms what I already know, I just for the life of me cannot figure out why this would be listed as it is.

Do some manufacturers call it '9x19' while others call it 'Luger'?

I have in the past turned down 9mm NATO as my understanding is that while it was 124 gr 9x19, it was closer to a +P load than was proper for my P.38, and I'm not risking it

 

[snail]

9x19, 9mm Luger, and 9mm parabellum are indeed all the same. A german by the name of Luger invented the 9x19 thus naming it 9mm Luger. When the Italians decided they wanted to use it as a military round they didn't want a germans name on their stuff, so they named it 9mm parabellum (for war). 9x19 simply refers to the rounds measurement 9mm wide bullet housed in a 19mm long case. 9mm NATO is loaded a bit hotter, so only use it in newer guns or any gun designed for +P.

 

[(BH)]

And just to state the obvious, 9mm Makarov, aka 9x18, is not the same either.

 

[Frank Ettin]

And remember also, the cartridges designated by their maker as 9x19 or 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger may be found in higher pressure +P and +P+ flavors that might not be suitable for some guns, at least as a steady diet.

 

[Chris_B]

Thanks everyone.

I think we got a little off track here; maybe I'm confusing folks. As I've already indicated, I am aware of +P loads and I know what 9x19 is and what parabellum, Luger, NATO, Largo, Kurz, and Makarov are. I'm not asking about the differences in the actual 9mm ammo so much as I'm asking about why the ammos were listed like that on a website. I see a list like this, for instance:

115 gr 9mm Luger- x dollars
115 gr 9x19- x dollars
124 gr 9x19- x dollars
124 9mm- x dollars

Let me re-phrase my question, and I hope it gets a little clearer:

Why would what is ostensibly the same ammo be listed as it is in the example above? Should I be reading the entries under "9x19" as "9mm NATO", for example? Or is it listed that way because two different people popped prices into that website?

My confusion is not what ammo to put in what pistol It is why so many different ways of describing what should be the same ammo is used on the same price list

 

[TailGator]

My bet would be that they are the same rounds and that the merchant lists them multiple ways so that (1) search engines find them regardless of how they are entered by a shopper, and (2) people who know less than you can identify the cartridge they want.

 

[Chris_B]

You know what, 'gator? I didn't even think of the search engine angle. I bet you're right!

 

[Frank Ettin]

My confusion is... why so many different ways of describing what should be the same ammo is used on the same price list

I suspect that there is no good answer to this. It possibly, at one time long ago, had to do with marketing strategy, and who owned or controlled what trademark or trade name.

My bet would be that they are the same rounds and that the merchant lists them multiple ways so that (1) search engines find them regardless of how they are entered by a shopper,...

I pretty much doubt the. The different names were around long before there was such thing as the Internet or search engines.

 

[Chris_B]

fiddletown, I think you're misunderstanding

Search engines use keywords to search websites. The suggestion wasn't that those names were made up by manufacturers 80 years ago to benefit search engines today, the suggestion is that whoever made those entries online today used as many differing names as possible so that no matter who was searching for 9mm ammo, the search result would have a better chance of turning up his website. The length of time those names have been around is irrelevant in this instance- all somebody has to do is use those names on a website. This has been a standard tactic to divert web traffic, for years

For example, a search for "M1 Garand" today turns up a better chance of finding info about the M1 rifle than just using the alphanumeric "m1" in the search engine. Sure the M1 rile was around before search engine, but that doesn't mean that certain keywords about it can't benefit a web search today

 

[Frank Ettin]

Chris_B, okay, from that perspective I agree with you.

 

[troy_mclure]

i know at one of my local fun shops they have all the ammo listed by what it says on the box.
if the box says .32acp its sign says that, if it says 7.65 browning, the sign says that. even tho both rounds are the same.

there are 12 ga shells there listed in metric, and about 15 different kinds of 9mm.

on the website you refer to, the list may be compiled by a non shooter, that doesnt know that the ammo is the same.

 

[TailGator]

Fiddletown

I think we are both right. The names are way older than the internet, as you said. But the question was why online merchants list the same cartridge under each of those names, and I am thinking that the search engine keywords are the reasons for the sellers to have multiple listings for each cartridge, like Chris B said. What made me think of it was those listings on ebay that use a jumble of keywords.