A Pair of 32-20 Revolvers

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Sometimes a little bit of time goes by between when I acquire a revolver and when I actually shoot it.

The Colt 32-20 Police Positive Special at the top of these photos was made in 1926. I picked it up last year. The S&W 32-20 Hand Ejector at the bottom of the photos shipped in 1916. I picked it up a few years ago.

I took them to the range for the first time yesterday. I had chanced across a box of Ultramax 32-20 Cowboy ammunition and I felt confident shooting this light stuff through these old girls. I have a couple of boxes of old 32-20 ammo, but since that stuff was also made for rifles I have been reluctant to shoot it in these old revolvers.

Believe it or not, this was the first time I ever fired a 32-20 revolver. The recoil was very mild, less than a similar gun chambered for 38 Special. Not surprising since the bullets only weighed 115 grains and it was Cowboy ammo. I had my Model 14-3 along with me for comparison, and the recoil from it with standard 158 grain bullets was stouter. The 32-20s did not recoil much more than a 22.

Accuracy was slightly better with the Smith, but I attribute that to the fact that the Smith has a slightly better trigger than the Colt. Now that I have messed with them a little bit I need to get off my butt and load up some more ammo for them. Keeping the pressure down of course.

 

[Jim Watson]

Ken Waters showed .32-20 revolvers launching 100-115 gr bullets about as fast as moderate to stout 158 gr .38s, 750-900+ fps.

Ultramax lists their cowboy load at 1050 fps in a carbine, no data for pistol.

 

[ligonierbill]

Not seeing your old commercial ammo, I can't say. But they did at one time make hot rifle-specific ammo. It was discontinued because...well, not too hard to guess.

I have an old Official Police that is a hoot, and a Savage 23C rifle with an aperture sight. I stick with modest loads (Unique works great) of 115 cast for the revolver. Loading manuals carry some pretty warm loads for rifles, and I have gone to 100 gr. XTPs exclusively so I don't mistake one for the other. The 32-20 is a round where rifle and pistol diverged pretty early on.

PS: Nice pistols!

 

[Jim Watson]

I think the .32-20 was the last of the dual purpose BP era cartridges to be offered in the heavy loads variously labeled High Velocity, High Power, High Speed, "1892" etc. It may have stayed in production as late as 1960 and the others were long gone by then.

But we are still warned against shooting the hot stuff in revolvers.
Is there really all that much left on the back shelves of old hardware stores?

 

[SaxonPig]

I have a Colt Army Special that's been cut down to 3" (for some reason I see a HUGE number of 32-20s with bulged barrels) that dates to 1934. This heavy frame revolver being post 1930 (generally improved metallurgy in manufacturing) will probably do fine with any sane load. Being modified the dealer offered it for $159 two years ago and I jumped on it like a toad on a June Bug. I call it a Detective Special on steroids.

The S&W is older (c. 1910) and has an untouched 6.5" barrel. Out of deference to its untempered cylinder I load a 115 RN lead bullet over four grains of Unique. I think it runs about 800 FPS or so and seems to work well in this revolver.

 

[Tad_T]

Very nice pieces, gentlemen.

I recently picked up this pair of .32-20 revolvers. Both of them have most of the original finish worn off of them, but they are both very tight and shoot very well. I got them to go with my 1895 Marlin 1894 rifle and my 1910 Winchester 1892 Saddle Ring Carbine.

I shot them with the same Ultramax Cowboy .32-20 that Driftwood used. These are also my first .32-20 revolvers and the first ones that I have ever fired. Both of the revolvers liked it and were very accurate shooting it. I also found the recoil very mild. I really like these. They're fun.

I got some dies and the rest of what I need so that I can start loading for them and for my rifle and carbine.

This one is an S&W Model 1905 Hand Ejector 1st Change with a 6.5" barrel made in 1907.

And this one is an S&W Model 1905 Hand Ejector 2nd Change with a 5" barrel made in 1909.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I, too, have a Colt Police Positive and an S&W M&P, both chambered in .32-20.

VERY fun to shoot.


"I have a couple of boxes of old 32-20 ammo, but since that stuff was also made for rifles I have been reluctant to shoot it in these old revolvers."

Regarding your ammo, while it is best than you be judicious with your revolvers, only .32-20 ammo marked Hi Speed, Super Speed, High Vel., etc., was loaded too hot for S&W or Colt revolvers or Winchester 1873 rifles.

Winchester had a big warning on its high velocity .32-20 ammo boxes, as seen here:

http://www.rtgammo.com/3220hvSX18488.jpg

Those loads, as noted, were for use ONLY in the Model 1892 rifle.

Standard velocity loadings, which were safe in revolvers and the 1873 rifle, continued in production at the same time, but without the headstamp denoting high velocity.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Here are the two boxes of 32-20 ammo that I have. Sounds like I absolutely should not try firing the Remington High Speed stuff in my old revolvers.

To tell you the truth, I doubt if I will shoot the Winchester ammo in them either. I collect old cartridges as well as boxes of old cartridges. I think I'll keep the Winchester box whole and load up some fresh stuff myself. I have everything I need to load them, but my powder scale gave up the ghost last year and I need to replace it.

Now the bad news is that just a few days ago I came across a nice Winchester Model 1892 with an octagon barrel chambered for 32-20. Just what I need, another lever gun. Perhaps if I wait long enough it will be gone.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Nope, as I understand Remington's markings, those are absolutely NOT for use in your revolvers or an 1873 even though they're lead bullets.

There might even be a warning on the back of the box, but the Remington warning was never as definitive as the Western warning.

Both of those boxes are from the 1950s/1960s.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Nope, nothing on the back other than the normal 'arms in good condition' warning. But I will heed your warning and squirrel this box back in my ammo collection.

Nothing of note on the back of the Winchester box either. I'm guessing that velocity is out of a rifle, not a handgun. The velocities listed in my Lyman Pistol and Revolver Reloading Handbook for a 100 grain lead bullet are showing max velocities of around 900 fps out of a Ruger Blackhawk 6 1/2" barrel. I will not be loading anywhere near the max. Minimum velocites are around 650 fps - 800 fps, depending on the powder. I will be loading down near the minimums.

Nope, I did not know that Ruger ever chambered the Blackhawk for 32-20. Learn something new and interesting every day.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Re the Remington box, Remington's own definition for Hi-Speed was always a cartridge loaded to higher pressure and velocity.

Given the lack of any other information, I would only use those cartridges in a M1892 Winchester, a Savage 23B, or a Winchester 43.

I would NOT use them in a Remington 25 or a Marlin 27-S, or any of the older Marlin lever action rifles in .32-20.


Those shells would likely be OK in your Blackhawk. Those things are crazy strong.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

No, I don't have a 32-20 Blackhawk, I never knew one was made. That was the test gun used in my Lyman Pistol and Revolver Reloading Handbook.

Still thinking about that 1892 chambered for 32-20.

 

[Mike Irwin]

What do they want for the 1892?

I'd really like a Remington 25, but the almost all of the ones I've seen have been chambered in .25-20, and all of them have been absolutely insanely priced.

 

[Jim Watson]

I do not find a '92 load with lead bullet in old catalogs. But I don't have them all and Ken Waters listed off a wide variety of .32-20 no longer made.

I once saw that there were THREE load levels in the WCF series.
Nitro for black at 14000 CUP, High velocity around 20000, and the light bullet high power load near 30000.

 

[SIGSHR]

Skeeter Skelton said he first met the 32-20 courtesy of a cowboy he called "Print Reed". In 1946 when he mustered out of the Marine Corps in Chicago a Colt SAA in 32-20 was all he could find for his trip back to Texas. He said he fired some High Speed loads, they shot low and kicked a little too much for his taste.

 

[Mike Irwin]

How old are the catalogs you're looking in, Jim?



As for Skeeter, he probably had a late production SAA in .32-20 if it stood up to high velocity load.

Western high-velocity loads had a reputation for taking the sideplates off Winchester 1873s and doing nasty, nasty things to black powder SAAs.

 

[Jim Watson]

1901, 1939, and Pet Loads.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Just found reference to the High Velocity, not for revolvers or 1873s, in the Western 1954 Jobber Price List.

The HV loads might have come out later than I initially thought because I didn't find them in the 1925 catalog.

http://cartridgecollectors.org/ammunition-catalogs/Western

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Couldn't stand it, went back to the shop and put $100 down on the 1892.

Probably pick it up next week.

No more excuses, gotta start loading 32-20 now.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"No more excuses, gotta start loading 32-20 now."

I made that choice a long time ago.

Word of caution. I don't know if it's me and my reloading techniques, but I've found that I have problems trying to load .32-20 with Trail Boss.

TB is one of my all time favorite powders, but I have had multiple squibs and light loads with TB in the .32-20.

I've tried varying my crimp pressure and the primers I use, but I've still had duds and have had to drive bullets out of the bore.

I'm sticking with Universal, Red Dot, or similar in .32-20 from now on.