A little story on 1911a1s

kraigwy

New member
The 1911/1911a1, more so then any USGI gun I know of is made so as the parts are completely interchangeable. What you can do is compare the slide (make) to the serial number of the frame to see if they match as different companies were assigned different serial numbers.

Here is the problem. This is just one man's story (mine) and I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands similar stories out there about the 1911a1s.

I went to Military Police AIT at Ft Gordon GA in 1966. At one time, I screwed up (don't remember what I did, it was Oct. 1966). I and another guy were put on detail cleaning hundreds of 1911a1s used by the MP School. We had an assembly line running where we disassembled the pistols, separating the parts, cleaned and put them back together. There was no effort to get the original parts back into the same gun. We did have fun, playing games, seeing how fast we could get them back together, blind folded, timed, etc.

Fast forward several years. I was running the Marksmanship Unit for the Alaska National Guard. I ordered and got several 1911a1s for unit marksmanship training. I got 4 for each battalion and separate company PLUS I kept 10 in the Marksmanship Unit for the Combat Pistol Teams.

Before I released the pistols to the respective units, I had a couple of my better pistol shooters go through all the guns, switching parts back and forth until the 10 I was keeping were good shooters, accuracy wise.

I also did the same thing to my personal 1911a1, I have two slides, one is a Colt, the other is a Union Switch and Single Company. The Colt slide was modified with better, high profile sights. The US&SC I left original. The frame on my 1911a1, according to the serial number is a Colt. I used the Colt slide w/high profile sights for civilian matches, and the US&SC for Military Combat Matches (where "as issued, arms room guns" were required").

I'm posting this as a warning that you cannot tell if a 1911a1 is original except for the slide matching the frame's serial number. I keep reading post where people say their pistol is original, all matching parts, etc, and, (correct me if I'm wrong) there isn't any way to tell what internal parts came from what gun.

Frankly I don't think it matters, as mentioned, the parts of these pistols are interchangeable. Just be carefully when one tells you THIS GUN HAS ALL ORIGINAL PARTS. The frame and slide should match, the rest doesn't matter.

This is two pictures of the same gun:

Colt Slide
1911a1.jpg


Union Switch Slide:

USSC%201911%20Slide%202.JPG
 
You make some good points, Kraig. I have seen countless 1911s come into my shop for trade/sell that the owners claimed to be all original and/or GI guns. The serial number match is the best way to know. However, I have also seen them come in with the only way to determine originality is to remove the slide assembly and give it an ever so small scratch on the inside and do the same with the frame If you do this using a plastic cleaning pick you wont damage the weapon, but, you will be able to tell the difference in metals. Weapons that match completely will have similar aged steel from the time of forging. You can tell in the texture of the steel if the age of the slide and the frame are similar. As you stated; the internal parts are different story. If the gun was manufactured in 1920, but the recoil spring is bright and shiny, you may want to scratch your head a little.
 

Hardcase

New member
kraigwy, what you describe dovetails nicely with my Navy experience. While I'm sure that there are a fair number of all original 1911A1s out there, I've got to think that the vast majority of them aren't. The military didn't care about whether or not the gun had its original parts, we just wanted the darn thing to work.
 

HKFan9

New member
Another awesome post from Kraig. I have other stories like yours as well from guys I know who served. I guy a work with now was special forces and he even said his 1911 he carried was a frankengun with parts swapped around from various other ones until it shot well. I am sure back then it was tiring to sit there and detail strip and clean 1911's.... but man... that had to be a cool job.:cool:
 

RickB

New member
Colt (only) serialed their slides as well as their frames, so it is possible to tell if an early-war Colt is original, even if they don't perfectly match in appearance. My M1911A1's slide is three digits off from the frame, and may have been so since 1942, but it's not "original". What bothers me, is when a later gun - or a gun made by a company other than Colt - is assumed to be matching when the finish and wear of the slide and frame are matching; even if the slide says Remington Rand, and the serial is correct for RR, that slide didn't necessarily start out on that frame.
 

davlandrum

New member
My Dad was on his ship's pistol team and told me they used to order boxes of each part and then go through and find the best.
 
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