A "Helping the Cops" Scenario ...

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Stuohn

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A hypothetical senario: If you were at the gun range/sportmens club and you witnessed two officers attempting to arrest someone. Ok now that person starts shooting and both officers go down. What do you do?

For the sake of this senario we will say this took place 10yds from you.

Please keep in mind that this is all the information you have. You know nothing about any crimes the person may or may not have committed.
 
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Tex S

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I wonder if the cops would throw away my outstanding parking tickets if I hosed the guy for them?:D

I would take cover. If innocent bystanders started going down, I would step in.
 
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chemgirlie

New member
Armchair quarterbacking is easy. In that kind of a situation you have to consider that if you shoot the BG the first thing the cops see when when they drive up is you holding your rifle and 3 dead bodies.
 
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ChicagoTex

Moderator
Maybe he's Dirty Harry and the evil crooked cops just came for him.
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That's the most insane postulation I've ever heard. If I'm at a gun range or anywhere else and I see somebody take down two uniformed officers, it is readily apparent to me that: 1. this guy is very much a violent criminal and 2. my life is very much in danger (if he just shot two UOs, what exactly is going to prevent him from shooting me?).

I'd try to drop him in a heartbeat.
 
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Tru Trak

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In my opinion hypothetical situations are why we carry and practice in the first place. The scenario described could easily become reality in a heartbeat. My thoughts are I take two seconds to see if he turns the gun on himself and does the right thing for taking two lives in such a manner, and if he doesn't, hopefully I could show him the way. Afterwords I again hope with a cool head I call 911 and aid the fallen officers. Either way, your life as you know it will never be the same.
 
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Gbro

New member
Come now, I think you are tripping a little when you imagine 2 Leo's approaching someone on a firing line. If that were nessesary you would have sensed something before their approach. Like you are down already and their is no other alternative but to intervene.
So I would look to poor jersey's assessment, because something is smelly here.
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
Gbro, Actually this thread is directly related to a case occurring saturday at my local 5 stand, sporting clays, pistol and rifle range.
http://www.shoalriver.com/
When 2 officers were sent there as a domestic violence suspect was found there. They were both mowed down with rifle fire and died.
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090425/NEWS01/90425003

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7430214
Nothin' fishy in this case.
As for me I would aid anyone being fired upon. LEO are usually in the right so I shoot for their attacker.
Brent
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
pizza, It would seem not so smart to some but the LEO's are doing a job. Firefighters going in a burning building seems "not so smart" to many as well.
In this case the suspect was known to be armed and had previous DV charges among others. The threat to the general public trumped allowing the LEO's to wait for a safer time to apprehend him I am guessing. Florida is a state that strips gun rights for DV conviction.
Brent
 
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Brian Pfleuger

Moderator Emeritus
Well, obviously I wasn't there but it seems to me that the guy was no more a threat to the general public at that moment than he was the day before, or would have been the day after. Fireman generally go into burning buildings when they have some general idea of the danger involved, and they tend not to go, or be called out, when it gets too bad to be in there.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there were any number of better times and places to confront this guy.


As to the OP:

I'd shoot the guy if I was there. I don't know how you could not. He is clearly and obviously a real and present danger. He's not even a threat, the threat has already become action. If he turned and ran I'd shoot him in the back. It's one of the very few situations wherein there are no rules.
 
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KingEdward

New member
If I am anywhere and see two LEOs get shot, I will try to do two things)

1 - get info on who shot them, description, tag of vehicle, etc.

2 - help the LEOs who are injured. whether that is from my phone, their phone/radio, or some other way.

I probably will not shoot (or try to shoot) the BG unless it's a situation where
he is just releasing rounds into crowds or coming towards me shooting or aiming.

I would think that most anyone who shoots two cops is probably running and I wouldn't chase but I'd try to get what info I could.
 
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GHF

New member
What Would I Do

Given that I am in Florida (and this happened in Florida for those in the 33 states that have receprocity), I would drop the shooter immediately, based on the following law in Florida:

776.031 Use of force in defense of others.--...... However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

Shooting a cop is a forcible felony, and you - being a witness to a capital crime, are in danger as soon as the shooter realizes you are there.

Drop the shooter as quickly as you can.
 
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treg

New member
Unless you are intimately familiar with the situation you don't KNOW who the BG / GG are. Just because someone has a uniform on doesn't mean they are GG. Just because shooter doesn't have a uniform on doesn't make him the BG.

CYA and be a good witness.
 
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David Armstrong

Moderator
As a retired LEO, let me commend and suggest all read the post he (King Edward) made. Unless the BG is presenting some kind of further immediate threat, leave him alone. Get help for the downed officers, be a good witness.
 
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publius

New member
In almost every situation involving the police I would stay out of it. But... both cops are down, there are no other cops to help, I have to assume the b/g is going to shoot me next so I am going to take him out.
 
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Ian0351

New member
Shooting a cop is a forcible felony, and you - being a witness to a capital crime, are in danger as soon as the shooter realizes you are there.
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This is the case in Washington also, and If I wast at the range, had a weapon, and felt threatened (yes to all 3 in the case put forward by HogDogs) I would certainly fire at the offender.

As to why the cops chose this venue to apprehend the guy: maybe they felt (or were given orders to the intent) that any rational suspect surrounded by armed citizens would be less likely to use his own weapon, especially if said suspect is known to always carry a gun. As has been mentioned, a mentally ill offender certainly ups the ante.

Regardless, it's always a shame when hardworking civil servants don't come home at the end of the day... I feel very sorry for two families.
 
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