9mm vs 9mm +P vs .357 sig

[EastSideRich]

Anyone shot all three?
Ballistically the 9mm +P and .357 sig look about the same (bullet weight and velocity). Is there a big difference in recoil or accuracy - The .357 sig is supposed to have a real flat trajectory, I've heard.
How does 9mm +P feel compared to plain ol' 9mm as far as "snappiness" and controllability?

 

[Deaf Smith]

115 9mm non plus p gets around 1150 fps
115 +p gets around 1250 fps
115 .357 sig gets 1500 fps.

125gr non +p gets 1120 fps
125 +p gets around 1200 fps (1240 for +p+ 127)
125 .357 Sig gets 1400 fps (or more.)

I'd kind of say there is a bit of difference.

I have Glocks in 19 and 32 (9mm and .357 sig). The Sig kicks a bit more, bit more blast, but nothing anyone can't handle.

Flat trajectory? Yea the .357 is flater. Now we are talking a few inches at 100 yards, not something like a .223.

Anyway, the Sig is definatly more powerful than the 9mm.

 

[Shadi Khalil]

I have a 239 9mm. I shoot 147 gr. +P everyitme i go out. While the recoil between that and standered pressure is noticable, it was nothing compared to the snap of the .357 sig. I cant attest to the accuarcy of the .357 since I only got to fire one mag full. For whats its worth, the .357 was also a 239.

 

[xrocket]

Well, I have both a Sig 229 and a Sig 239 in 357sig and both are used for HP & CC. Bottom line .... I love everything about the 357sig and it will do just about anything I need it to do.

Now for the other side. My son purchased his first handgun this last weekend and it was an HK P30 9mil and i could not be happier for him. He is left handed and left eye dominate and he began shooting a few months ago. He needs allot of trigger time practice and he is on a tight budget, hence the 9mil. I raised him to believe in shot placement over caliber and it was his choice. Initially, he was thinking .45 which is what I've shot for thirty years up until last year, but since he needs to build skills he wisely chose 9.

As his skills increase and finances loosen up he can move on to other calibers and manufactures. Like most of us, down the road, he will always have a fondness for his first love though.

I really love a plan when it comes together. Somewhere along the way his mom and I raised him right.

 

[Adventurer 2]

All three can use the same diameter bullet, .355. The 9 mm and 9 mm +P use the same case. The 357 Sig uses, essentially, a necked down 40 S & W case (more powder behind the same bullet).

 

[Unregistered]

The 9mm Winchester Ranger-T 127g +P+ round gives me a consistent 1250 fps out of a Glock 19.

This is almost exactly same as the Remington Golden Saber 357 magnum round, which is a bit downloaded for 357 magnum.

I personally would not switch to 357 sig for just an extra 150 fps. There is no doubt it is a little bit more powerful, but its also a bit less controllable, which may make follow up shots a little slower. Also, I do not want to have the logistics problem of another caliber.

 

[MrAnteater]

I would stick to 9mm and +p+ before investing in a .357 sig purely from an economics standpoint. 30-40% cheaper target ammo is the reason.

 

[mountainclmbr]

The 9mm has cheaper ammo = more practice. The .357 Sig is supposed to feed very reliably due to the bottle neck case. I almost bought a Glock in the 357 Sig many moons ago.

 

[AK103K]

The biggest difference between the two is that the majority of guns made for 9mm are not made for a steady diet of the hotter +P, +P+ ammo. The guns built to shoot 357SIG were designed to handle the pressures.

I've personally tore up a M11/9mm top half shooting hot 9mm out of it. It only took about 2000 rounds to cause the tube to crack and fail in a number of places. Its replacement has been trouble free with standard and NATO level 9mm since, which has been better than 20000+ rounds and 20+ years of shooting. Wear is a real issue with the 9mm's if you shoot a steady diet of the hotter ammo.

Another difference is, the 9mm is maxed out at the +P+ level, which is usually still below the starting velocities of the 357SIG. The standard velocity 357SIG is 1350 fps with a 125 grain bullet. The Double Taps in my guns run 1450-1500+, depending on barrel length, which puts them in the equivalent range of 125 grain, 357MAG power levels out of a 4" barreled revolver.

I shoot all three, although I dont usually shoot a whole lot of the +P, +P+ stuff out of my 9mm's anymore due to wear. Theres no need, since I shoot the hotter 357SIG on a regular basis. On the odd chance I do use one, I do carry +P+ Hydra Shoks in my 9mm guns though. I normally carry 357SIG's.

The 357SIG is not much different to shoot than the 9mm, and is easily handled. It is a little louder, (mostly noticeable indoors) but flash and recoil are a non issue. I dont remember ever seeing any flash, indoors or out, using factory or reloads. On the odd chance you did get some flash, neither it, or +P+ 9mm are anything close to a 125 grain 357Mag out of a 4" revolver, let alone a 2" gun. I do notice my 357SIG groups are tighter at longer ranges than my 9mm's from similar guns, but its really not enough to really matter, unless its for a score.

I know a lot of people complain or insist that the cost of 357SIG ammo is prohibitive, but I havent found that to be the case. Its the same price as .40 S&W for the most part, and only a couple of bucks more a box than 9mm if you buy both in bulk. All three are cheaper than .45acp.

357SIG is also easily reloaded without issue, although I havent really found it to be any cheaper to do so, as bullet selection is limited for it. While they are both 9mm, the 357SIG uses a bullet with a different profile than standard 9mm.


If you havent had the opportunity to shoot it, I'd give it a try. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Dont be surprised if you buy one, that they start to multiply.





















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[xrocket]

AK nailed it!

Actually, I'm thinking about adding a third Sig 226 in 357sig to my current 229 and 239 Sigs. It just flat works for me.

 

[WESHOOT2]

What is SAMMI 9mm +P+

It is 'of unspecified pressure'.

Testing has indicated certain loads designated with the SAMMI "+P+" symbol fall under standard 9mm pressure limits.

Certain others do not.

IME a 'correctly loaded' +P+ cartridge can equal or exceed the performance of similar-bullet-weight 357 SIG ammo.

I personally prefer a 9x19-chambered gun...........

 

[AK103K]

I emailed Speer early on about the differences between the 9mm in its different configurations and the 357SIG. Their response was this...

The 9mm is a 35,000 psi, +P is 38,500 psi and +P+ is 40,000 psi. The 357 SIG is a 40,000 psi. Bullets of the same weight will approximate the same velocities in SIG and +P+. The difference is gun construction, all 9mm's will not handle +P+. All of the 357 SIG's are made to handle the pressures for the caliber.
Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
CCI/SPEER Technical Service
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
(800) 627-3640 ext. #5351 (pound key must be used)

You may get 9mm in its hottest loadings to approximate the 357SIG, but thats only at the 357SIG's "basic" loadings, and at risk to your gun, and possibly you at some point, by doing so on a regular basis.

If you feel the need for the extra power, I think in the long run, your better off jumping up to the 357SIG. If your comfortable shooting standard ammo in practice with you 9mm and then load up with +P+ for carry, hey, have at it, I'm sure you'll be fine and your gun probably wont be affected by little if any use of it. Just make sure the difference in the way it shoots and handles is acceptable to you, and that your gun will stand any use of it.

The difference isnt as bad as shooting .38 wad cutters out of a .357 for practice and then switching to full power loads, but there is still a difference, especially with the lighter guns.

Heres what the difference equates to wear wise on guns not rated for constant, or even not so constant use of the hotter stuff.

2000 rounds of Spanish SMG 9mm over a short period of time. The charging knob also sheared off early on using this ammo.

The upper on the gun now has been on there for 20+ years since being replaced. Its had at least 1000 rounds a year, and often twice or more than that through it a year since, usually standard loaded 9mm and NATO loaded 9mm. Other than normal wear, nothing else has broken or failed, except for normal wear things like the rubber bolt buffer.

 

[EastSideRich]

how about vs .40 (in a sub-compact)?

Just make sure the difference in the way it shoots and handles is acceptable to you, and that your gun will stand any use of it.

The difference isnt as bad as shooting .38 wad cutters out of a .357 for practice and then switching to full power loads, but there is still a difference, especially with the lighter guns.

Thats my problem; I am leaning toward an HK P2000SK for carry. I like 9mm because of its relatively gentle recoil (quicker and better follow-up shots). I do however have some concerns with standard 9mm out of such a short barrel though (3.27"). I am torn between the 9mm and .357.
Unfortunately, I don't think any of the ranges around here have one of these to rent in either caliber. I need to decide whether it makes more sense to get a 9mm, practice with standard and carry hot loads, or just get a .357 and practice with ammo similar to what I'll carry. With ammo prices the way they are, it would be nice to practice with 9mm; but if there is a huge difference in how they shoot (standard vs +P), I am thinking .357 may be the way to go.
I am probably over thinking this, but I just have the feeling which ever way I go, I am going to wish I had gotten the other one. For that kind of money, I want to have no regrets regarding my choice.
I may have to just go try to rent a .357 in the smallest package I can find.
Any other thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.

I've shot a .40 little tiny Glock (g27) and 9mm (g26). The difference in how they felt to me was substantial.

Maybe a better question would be how a .40 stacks up to a hot 9mm or a .357 as far as controlability in such a small frame.

 

[MrApathy]

9mm can send them fast without the pressure 357sig needs.
what is the life of a pistol in 357sig seems to yet be a mystery.

9mm doesnt use up as much powder as 357sig either. less brass for the casing.
unless people start valueing pennies the dollar will just continue to slide ammo prices will go up next thing you know the dollar will be the new penny.

 

[WESHOOT2]

Major Nine

I have one Witness with a hard-fit Nowlin barrel; its demonstrated ability to launch 115g and 124g JHPs fast has been ongoing since 199something.

115g JHPs at 1500+ is no big deal; 124s at 175 PF is no big deal.
Rd-ct stands above 40K.

I have another 9x19 Witness (just in case it becomes a big deal, ay?) with its factory barrel; it delivers slightly less velocities with same-lot ammo than the Nowlin gun.
Lower rd-ct, perhaps still under 30K.

NOT for every gun.

But I don't expect the service life of any 357-chambered guns to exceed that of 40 S&W Berettas....

 

[AK103K]

Just curious, but what makes the 40 S&W Beretta's the benchmark? If anything, the early issue Beretta's make the point about shooting a lot of fairly hot 9mm out of a gun not designed for it.

I would think that if all were built to handle the pressures generated by the cartridges they were designed for, they should all pretty much last about the same, dont you?

I am probably over thinking this, but I just have the feeling which ever way I go, I am going to wish I had gotten the other one. For that kind of money, I want to have no regrets regarding my choice.

There is no cure for this! Well, there is, sort of. Buy both.

Your still going to have regrets. There is no perfect gun or caliber. This is all purely a sickness, and has noting to do with anything else but MORE, MORE, MORE! Face it, your never going to be happy.

One advantage to the .40/357SIG platform is, a few will allow the use of an after market 9mm barrel. If you go this route, shooting the +P, +P+ pretty much becomes a moot point, as the base gun was designed for the hotter rounds.

If you go the 9mm route, you cant go up without buying a different gun.

9mm can send them fast without the pressure 357sig needs.

If its sending an equivalent weight bullet as fast, then the pressures are there. Or so say the engineers at Speer.

"The 9mm is a 35,000 psi, +P is 38,500 psi and +P+ is 40,000 psi. The 357 SIG is a 40,000 psi. Bullets of the same weight will approximate the same velocities in SIG and +P+."

 

[obxned]

The big advantage of the 9mm is that you can shoot a whole lot of cheaper, non +P loads for practice, and be able to use hot loads for serious stuff.

 

[WESHOOT2]

40K is 40K, not matter what gun....

I was making fun of 40 S&W 96's breaking 'early'.