9MM, Unique powder and compression

[MikeSRuth]

Good day folks, so I have read somewhere recently about how full unique fills a 9mm Luger case. Today for the first time I setup to use Unique on a 9MM case, 115 Grain LRN(Blue Bullets). After dbl checking weights I was going with Alliant's recommendation of 6 grains. I load up a case and low and behold it's 95% full which means I'll be compressing this powder.

I'm guessing this is just fine but I really would like to hear that this is NORMAL from anyone that has used this recipe.

Again, I only have 5 years in this game of reloading and I'd like to at least live another 5 haha. Breaking 70 would be cool.

Thanks, Mike R

 

[74A95]

It's normal and nothing to be concerned about.

 

[Recycled bullet]

Make sure the internal volume with your cast bullets is similar to the jacketed bullets that are used to generate the pressure data.

If you have to seat the bullets deeper in the cartridge casing to permit easy chambering/fitment into the barrel then reduce the powder charge to compensate.

Compression is ok in 9mm if done safely and unique is generally an accuracy powder with good power.

Have you tried power pistol?

 

[pgdion]

I shoot a lot less than 6 grains of Unique in 9mm. I shoot 4.7 to 5.1gr and consider 5.4gr pretty hot.
4.7 to 4.9 gr shoot really nice.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I was going with Alliant's recommendation of 6 grains. I load up a case and low and behold it's 95% full which means I'll be compressing this powder.

Start low and work up.
You're about to find out very quickly that 6 gr is unnecessary and will be beating up your pistols, if not popping primers.

But, hey, everyone needs a good lesson in not jumping to max.

 

[44 AMP]

I would not START with 6gr Unique in 9mm Luger.

And, especially not with a cast bullet of "unknown" dimensions. (and, by "unknown" I mean how much of the bullet base is inside the case, compared to the jacketed bullet used in reloading manual testing)

6gr Unique is close to if not at or beyond a max load with a 115 jacketed slug. Data of course varies a tiny bit, but 6gr is up there at top end, DON'T START THERE!!!!

You might have no trouble at all, but your gun might be different from the test gun and it might be too hot. ALWAYS START low, just in case.
Unique is a fairly forgiving powder in most things, but the 9mm case's relatively small volume is not as forgiving.

In my old books I show 6.1, or 6.2gr Unique as MAX for the 100gr and 95 gr slugs, respectively and 5.9 as max for 125s. The lighter slugs are in the 1200fps range and the 125 in the 1100s range.

DON'T START AT MAX!!

and, always keep in mind that the powder makers and the bullet makers are not shooting YOUR GUN. YOU ARE. It CAN matter!

 

[Metal god]

My nice load is 5gr pushing 115gr Platted RN . "going" with 6gr sounds like you are starting there ??? Don't do that ! Start at recommended minimum and work your way up in .2 or .3gr increments .

 

[Recycled bullet]

Hey Mike s Ruth, what bullets did you see in the Alliant unique data listing for their testing, at what overall length, and what is the min-max powder charge range of the load data you are looking at??

If you are starting at a max load please don't!

9mm is a small high intensity cartridge and is very sensitive to small changes in powder charge, seating depth/internal volume and overall length.

This is why the recommendation to start low and work up with changes of components used exists. It is to help guarantee the safest and generally best results for internal and terminal ballistics.

When the automatics explode the magazines and grip panels blow out and the barrels shatter, the slides fragment and all the broken pieces could become projectiles, and your actions could become a liability to yourself and shooters near to you in the next bay.

It's very dangerous if you are not planning out clearly. It can be very safe too with tens of thousands of handloads with nothing more serious than an upside down primer.

It's as safe or as dangerous as you make it.

I used to load 115 grain brazos bullets and I was charging either 3.5 grains of red dot or 5.5 grains of power pistol @1.1" overall length to fit the gun barrel and cycle the slide of my cz.

Red Dot is fast like bullseye, power pistol is between unique and blue dot/2400.

If you over pressure cast bullets, even if it is not an over pressure for the cartridge, you will exceed the material strength of the bullet and strip and deposit lead in the rifling.

You and the scrub brush had best be on good terms at this point, and I would recommend wrapping copper chore boy scrubber strands around the brass brush and scrub a dub dub until all the lead strands are mechanically removed from the rifling grooves. Oiling liberally makes this easier.

Eventually if this leading continues unaddressed for too long the gun will smoke excessively when fired, your barrel will clog with lead fouling and the internal caliber diameter inside the gun barrel will shrink. Your bullets will tumble and strike the target sideways and you will be unable to punch holes in a paper plate at 5 yards the accuracy will be so bad.

That's when it becomes dangerous because now that borderline loading pressure wise has to shove a 35 caliber bullet through a 30 caliber hole. KA-BOOM! The pressure of the hot expanding gases must go somewhere.

I just had a look at Alliant's 9mm unique gun powder data on their website and it lists for 115 grain speer gold dots @6.2 grains@1.12 overall length. This will perform poorly with cast bullets I would recommend starting lower like around 4 grains and working up.

Have you confirmed the assembled cartridges fit the guns barrel I e the "plunk" test?

Unresolved issues with poor quality control, poor accuracy, excessive leading, excessive cost and supply chain issues stacked together and directly lead to my abandonment of commercial cast bullets in March of 2020.

I resolved to teach myself how to cast and powder coat my own bullets. The learning process is steep at the beginning. Generally that means I start low and work up because no loading manual, even the Lyman cast bullets handbook included, is going to list pressure data for bullets cast out of a Slovakian brass bullet mold[emoji848].

I have never used "Blue" brand bullets so I cannot say from personal experience how they function.

Have a good morning and be safe and shoot well.

 

[Recycled bullet]

P.S.

Specific to loading coated cast bullets: I would also recommend an lee universal expander tool , Lyman m die, or noe expander bushings to expand the case mouths. I use the Lee tool, have been eye balling the other two as I understand they are improvements in actual use.

Also I would recommend seating the bullets and crimping the bullets in two separate steps. The ammunition will be much more consistent and the coating will be undamaged.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

Good day folks, so I have read somewhere recently about how full unique fills a 9mm Luger case. Today for the first time I setup to use Unique on a 9MM case, 115 Grain LRN(Blue Bullets). After dbl checking weights I was going with Alliant's recommendation of 6 grains. I load up a case and low and behold it's 95% full which means I'll be compressing this powder.

I'm guessing this is just fine but I really would like to hear that this is NORMAL from anyone that has used this recipe.

Again, I only have 5 years in this game of reloading and I'd like to at least live another 5 haha. Breaking 70 would be cool.

Thanks, Mike R

If you’re going off Alliants web site, the loads they list aren’t ‘recommended’, they are the maximum in their test equipment. Start at a 10% reduction and work up while watching for signs of over pressure.

 

[74A95]

The OP's load of 6.0 gr Unique is the middle of the range according to Speer's load data. With their 115 grain plated bullets in 9mm, Unique has a start load of 5.6 gr and a max of 6.3 gr. And this is standard pressure loads, not +P.

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

OP, the overall length of your loaded round will be important, and will depend on the shape and length of the bullet and what will fit in your chamber. Feel free to measure the bullet and the round's overall length that will fit in your chamber and let us know. Thanks.

 

[Unclenick]

There may or may not be a little apples-to-oranges comparison here. The Alliant load for the Speer Gold Dot HP is 6.3 grains Max, like the Speer data. But Alliant references a Speer CPRN (Copper-Plated Round Nose) for which they list the 6.0-grain Max load. It is likely the TMJ and CPRN are one and the same unless the Alliant data is old and represents some earlier bullet development. They list the same COLs for the TMJ and CPRN in both the Speer and Alliant data. If they are the same, I can't account for the discrepancy, as Alliant does all of Speer's pressure testing. It might be worth a phone call to Alliant to confirm it is the same bullet and see if they can explain it.

On the other hand, the Speer plated jackets are tougher than copper-plated jackets like those on Berry's Bullets, which are pure soft copper, while the Speer product is a plated alloy. So using the lead bullets mentioned by the OP, particularly if they are swaged, I would have some concerns about leading at the 1200+ fps velocities the max loads produce with plated copper jackets, be they Gold Dot or TMJ bullets. Also, if his bullets are cast lead with lube grooves adding to volume and length, they may well be seated deeper in the case, which raises pressure.

So, in the OP's shoes, with lead, I would actually load one round way down at about 4.0 grains and then one at 4.2 grains and so on in 0.2-grain steps until the gun cycle normally. At that point, using more powder is going to increase the likelihood of lead fouling, so I would stop increasing the charge and just shoot at that load level with bullets of that type. He could try working up to the Max if he just wants to try it, but be prepared to scrub lead.

 

[74A95]

It might be worth a phone call to Alliant to confirm it is the same bullet and see if they can explain it.

Probably just lot number variation.

On the other hand, the Speer plated jackets are tougher than copper-plated jackets like those on Berry's Bullets, which are pure soft copper, while the Speer product is a plated alloy.

What is Speer's copper alloy? What else is in the plating besides copper?

Also, if his bullets are cast lead with lube grooves adding to volume and length, they may well be seated deeper in the case, which raises pressure.

The 115 grain Blue Bullets have no lube groove.

 

[MikeSRuth]

Holy Smokes I have never seen a forum of such amazing information coming back. With that I first want to say thank you to each and every one of you!!!

I don't have time at this very moment to answer all the questions but I will say of course I will drop down to 4.5 Gn and work up from there slowly

the Blue bullet is lead with a 100% polymer coating. I have been using them for a short while now and very happy with them. If anyone is interested in looking here is a link, https://thebluebullets.com/

Unique just happen to be a powder that I had bought recently to use with .38 spc and .357Mag. I usually use Silhouette or Tite Group in 9MM.
So I figure I would give the unique a shot at 9MM.

I was caught off guard a bit when I looked at Alliant's recipe as having no range and then again the almost full case issue.

I have no need for max power and this is just some good old range plinking/ practice shooting. Definitely don't want to beat up my Sigg 220 Euro. I'll test in a good ol S&W 559.

Again many thanks to all here and I'll report back on my first loads.

 

[603Country]

My 9mm load for 115 gr bullets is, going on memory right now, about 4.5 gr of Unique. Not too hot, and the pistols function fine. To restate however, that’s what I think it is, so start low.

 

[FrankenMauser]

With 122 gr LFPs (cast Lead Flat Point - basically a wide truncated cone), I load to 1.095" COAL with 4.6 gr Unique.

For a long time, I thought it was supposed to be a fairly weak and light load that was just *barely* enough (from memory) to cycle all of my 9mms.

I chronographed it about 3-4 years ago and was quite surprised. It clocked an average of 1,135 fps.
Not weak or light.

 

[44 AMP]

Unique has been my go to powder in .45 Colt and for full power .45acp loads for decades. It really shines in the large revolver cases for medium to full power loads, and a bit beyond in some cases. For max power loads you get more performance from a slower powder like 2400 in large enough cases.

In 9mm Luger, Unique is not at its finest. Its close to, if not on the slow end of powders that work well in the 9mm Luger. Full power loads are certainly possible but you can get the same speed performance from faster powders using less powder which doesn't fill the small 9mm case as full.

 

[74A95]

How are people defining "work well"?

To me, it means excellent accuracy. In this respect medium to slow powders provide that.

 

[zeke]

There appears to be a wide variation of charge weights for unique through various manuals . When i am using it, am placing more value with the manuals/info with actual pressure data. Am getting the best accuracy using Unique in 115 jrn 9mm, when not using the max loads. However if running out of room in the case, occasionally use the rap a tap method of settling the powder in the case, instead of compressing it all the way. Have some max 9mm 125 gn loads where the powder is compressed, and the col has stayed the same for over 15 years.

My definition of "work well" varies some what depending on what purpose am handloading a specific round for.

 

[Metal god]

Works well ? Accuracy is important but metering , full burn (clean ) , low soot , and scorching are right up there for me . Then the trade off for terminal ballistics ( higher velocities) matters as well . Slower powders will get you higher velocities but tend not to burn as fully cleanly .

So I agree it depends what one means by works well as to what one should use . Unique is one of the first powders Ive ever bought and is also the least used powder I use . I still have 80% of that first pound . I did not like how it metered and moved on to Titegroup , 231 and CFE pistol .