9mm penetration

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tom98390

New member
Yesterday I was shooting my 9mm carbine at random things out to about 25 yards. Iwas punching holes in random things like milk jugs and whatnot. When I was done I was cleaning up I picked up a coffie can I was shoting and I noticed there was somthing rattling inside of it. I opened it up and there was I 9mm round in it. The round did not expand at all and was kinda flat. This got me to thinking how are other calibers going to hold up to a coffie can at 25 yards away. First up was at 7.62 out of my sks loaded up 5 rounds three of them hit the can and went through just as I expected. Others missed the can all together. (I was tierd and shotting off hand dont blame me to much on the misses) then I grabed my 22 5 shots in one side of the can and out the other. 17 hmr in one side and out the other. I was really confused by this. I loaded up the 9mm again and all shots went through both sides.

So should I just chalk that up as a fluke? I ask this becuase once I am of age to cc I was planing on it being a 9mm as I am I much better shot with the 9mm managable recoil. I really wish I could take a picture of the round I recovered, its not pretty. On a side note the 7.62 made some very impresive exit wounds! Thanks for reading , and go seahawks!!!!
 
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chadwick76

New member
i can only guess that either you were using small loads in the 9mm or the can caught a ricochet. either way if you want a handgun with decent penetration and velocity go with your 9mm. however, for personal protection I would recomend you use +p loads in your gun.

keep on shooting!! and vote REPUBLICAN (if you like your guns)
 
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Bill DeShivs

New member
Any standard loading of 9mm will reliably penetrate 10-12" of pine. I'm sure your coffee can round was a fluke of some sort.
Bill
 
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oldbillthundercheif

Moderator
Any 9mm round loaded with so little bang-dust that it will not carve through an aluminum can would not cycle a semi. If your carbine extracted and kicked out the case it was a fluke. The round must have riccoched up in the air and landed in the can or something simmilar.

Maybe it hit the ground in front of the can (eating most of the velocity), bounced, and then hit the can?
 
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tom98390

New member
So it seems it was a freak act of god. I thought after my 22 got through it no problem that somthing had to be wrong. Remind me not to use that kind of 9mm when I get my carry gun.
 
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Axion

New member
Any standard loading of 9mm will reliably penetrate 10-12" of pine. I'm sure your coffee can round was a fluke of some sort.
Bill
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Are you sure about that? I'm finding it hard to believe since according to http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot31.htm 9mm ball will do about 7 inches in paper and I've got to think pine would offer more resistance then paper. Can you by any chance point to where you read that?
 
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Maser

New member
oldbillthundercheif said:
Maybe it hit the ground in front of the can (eating most of the velocity), bounced, and then hit the can?
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Exactly what I was going to say also. Sort of reminds me when I was test firing my black powder revolver for the first time over on an older friend's land which is a landfill and all full of fun things to shoot. I took a shot at a glass bottle laying on its side and the bullet went into the ground underneath but still moved the bottle and made a "ping" noise. From my perspective it seemed like the bullet bounced off the bottle.

Anyways, your experience had to be some sort of fluke. Heck, I have shot pellet guns that penetrate both sides of a coffee can. A 9mm will definatly penetrate.
 
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youngster

New member
Compare the risk's pros and cons

I personaly would not depend on the 9mm to provide sufficiant killing power when lives are at stake, Ive heard to many stories of the 9mm (with proper ammo) failing and never any about 40's and 45's. So why take a chance on a very controversial round. If you are a good shooter and have had some basic training than ammo capasity and the extra kick should not matter, as long as it holds 10 + 1 or higher (like my 40cal HK usp that holds 13 +1 plenty for a good shooter) you will prevail more than not, expecially with the extra power, and asuming you carry extra magazines.

I saw a video of highway prtrol shoot a guy atleast 7 or 8 times with 9mm's more than half being center mass, I'm asuming the ammo was atleast decent to top of the line. So how did this man survive? does anyone think he would have survived if he was hit that many times with decent 40 or 45 ammo, I serious doubt it. So once again why risk it, the more stopping power the better. (they stated in the videa the caliber used)
 
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Maser

New member
youngster said:
I personaly would not depend on the 9mm to provide sufficiant killing power when lives are at stake, Ive heard to many stories of the 9mm (with proper ammo) failing and never any about 40's and 45's.
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Tell that to the troops who's lives rely on their M9s as their sidearm.
 
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Mark54g

New member
Forget about "killing" Power. A sharp stick has lots of killing power. A kill is not what we are looking for. Shooting someone is a tough enough thing without going into it wanting them to die. Shoot to stop. It might just save you from jail time.

Another thing. A premium hollow point from a service sized pistol in a service caliber will likely produce very similar results, provided you do your part and get good hits.

Many doctors have a hard time determining what round provided the wounds they have had to look at in shooting victims.

The many accounts of 9mm failing to stop result in "street" shootouts with people who don't know FMJ from JHP from a creme donut. They buy what is cheap to protect their turf.

If 50 cent was shot with 9 rounds of Corbon 115gr JHP instead of FMJ and the guy got good hits, he wouldn't have a record out.
 
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18DAI

New member
youngster - Allow me to remedy your lack of anecdotes concerning the 40 round. Bad guy standing 6' from the muzzle of a 40 semi auto when shot. Bullet (JHP) went through and through his neck. The round was recovered off the floor of the store he was robbing, 3' feet from where he fell. The round had not expanded, and was slightly deformed. He (alleged bad guy) survived, so now taxpayers will give him a trial. I like and carry the 40 (HK USPF 40). The shot placement in this case was spot on, IMHO. It was a JHP round, and the B/G survived. The moral of this anecdote, is that no handgun, or handgun round is the be all, end all. Remember, anything worth shooting, is worth shooting twice. Carry what you can hit with, and practice often. Regards 18DAI.
 
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Desert Heat

New member
I have Gold Dot in one magazine for a devestation shoot, I hope I never have to use it, and regular old FMJ for your basic target shooting.

I have always thought of the 9mm round as a high velocity, high penetration round, but that means nothing without good placement. Once again, if you actually have to shoot in self defense, all bets are off and your instincts take over.
 
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youngster

New member
Im not saying the 9mm is a worthless round and I'm not trying to piss you guys off :confused: , so sorry, all Im saying is that if I do have to shoot someone in protection of my own and perhapes others lives its not going to be just to stop them, it will be to kill because as long as there is breath left in their lungs then I feel they still have the means to do harm. I personally prefer a bigger round in that situation.
 
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Recon7

New member
I understand what your feeling youngster, but you have to agree priority is stopping your opponent not killing him. a mortally wounded man can kill you! after the incident is over it probably dosen't matter if he is dead or not. as he hopefully would be in prison for a while.

as long as there is breath left in their lungs then I feel they still have the means to do harm.
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I would be more concerned with the family and friends "homeboys" of somebody who you killed well after he was stopped

also there is the legal aspect of it. I agree with your sentament some people deserve to be killed, but you can't tell a judge that your intention was to kill him. you have a much better defense saying "i was in fear of my life and took actions to stop the BG from killing me" .If you are seen as somebody who went well beyond "self defense" you could end up in prison in the cell next to the BG you tried so hard to kill.
 
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jon_in_wv

New member
I carry primarily 9mms for my protection. In my opinion the primary advantage of the .40 and .45 is the added weight and energy vs barriers that may be encountered in law enforcement situations. I have NO worries about using 9mm for defense. It is accurate, reliable, and cheap enough for me to practice, practice, practice. I buy UMC 115gr JHP for practice and carry for the summer but I load my nines with DPX for the winter months.

P.S. I watched a video of a shooting where the perp was shot by an officer through the back window of a car with a .45. The bullet bounced off the back of his head and knocked him out. Any caliber can encounter some type of failure. I know a guy who was shot six times in vietnam. One of the shots was a .223 round in the head. He has a nice scar where the round ricocheted off his skull.

Your best insurance in my opinion is multiple, well aimed shots. That comes from practice, not ammo selection.
 
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GreenFlash107

New member
I also saw a video this week or last week, of a police shooting a guy point blank with a 45. Hit him in the stomach. The bad guy was still trying to stab the police officer. Did not slow him down. The 9mm is a good round. Flukes happen.
 
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RedPhnx

New member
I dunno, the train of thought that the bigger bullet is always better is extremly flawed. I'm supprised some one hasn't suggested a revolver chambered in 12 ga. slug. But even then you run into situation like last hunting season when I put 3 slugs into a large whitetail's heart and lungs and it still tried to get up and kill me, it took 5 slugs to bring him down. So no matter what round your using (short of anti-armour rounds) there is always a chance that its not going to stop your target. As shooters all we can do is practice shot placement and keeping our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shots on target.

Jason I.
 
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