WeedWacker
New member
Would it be possible to use the same slugs for 7.62x39, 7.62x51, 7.62x54, and 7.62x63 (.30'06)? Looking at the x39 it seems a little different on the tip since they are designed for detatch mags maybe? 
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7.62 reloading
- Thread starter WeedWacker
- Start date
Yes, it would be possible, but it would be a great waste of time and money. 7.62X39- bore diameter= .310"-.312"
7.62X51 and 7.62X63- bore diameter= .308"
So, you can see that you would have to use the smaller diameter bullet (.308") in all the cartridges, and accuracy out of the 7.62X39 would be terrible due to poor obturation (bullet-bore fit). Plus, the larger cartridges are designed for heavier bullets than are practical with the 7.62X39.
7.62X51 and 7.62X63- bore diameter= .308"
So, you can see that you would have to use the smaller diameter bullet (.308") in all the cartridges, and accuracy out of the 7.62X39 would be terrible due to poor obturation (bullet-bore fit). Plus, the larger cartridges are designed for heavier bullets than are practical with the 7.62X39.
45Marlin carbine
Moderator
some bullets are designed with jacket thickness in mind of velocity also. useing some '06 slugs or .308 in a X39 may not expand optimally at the lower velocitys.
azredhawk44
Moderator
Also... 7.62x54R is not a .308 diameter either. It's .310 to .312 as well. So is .303 British and the Japanese 7.7 Arisaka cartridge.
.308 (7.62x51, aka 7.62 NATO), .30-06 and .30-30 use .308 diameter bullets. So do all the current .300 <<insertbraggingrightshere>> whompem-magnum offerings.
But, since the velocities of each cartridge are going to be different, you're gonna want to optimize bullet weight and construction for the intended purpose of the rifle.
.308 (7.62x51, aka 7.62 NATO), .30-06 and .30-30 use .308 diameter bullets. So do all the current .300 <<insertbraggingrightshere>> whompem-magnum offerings.
But, since the velocities of each cartridge are going to be different, you're gonna want to optimize bullet weight and construction for the intended purpose of the rifle.
accuracy out of the 7.62X39 would be terrible due to poor obturation (bullet-bore fit).
Maybe, Maybe not! There are a lot of 7.62x39 handloaders using .308 dia bullets with excellent results in their 7.62x39 rifles. In many cases the .308 bullets out shoot the larger .310-.311 by a large margin. Only way to know for sure is to load em up and try em.
Sidetracked
New member
It also depends what rifles the 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R are chambered in.
There is always the chance these rifles have .308" bores and are modern firearms. Unlikely - but possible. Without any more information from the OP, we won't know.
IF they were all .308", it would be possible to settle on 2-3 different bullets that would cover the spectrum from 123-180 grain however you see fit.
Whatever you do - If you want to reload for the two Russians, have the bores slugged by a gunsmith. It will tell you the exact bore diameter of the rifles. I wouldn't want to be the guy pulling the trigger on a .310" bored Mosin, with a .313" bullet in the throat.
There is always the chance these rifles have .308" bores and are modern firearms. Unlikely - but possible. Without any more information from the OP, we won't know.
IF they were all .308", it would be possible to settle on 2-3 different bullets that would cover the spectrum from 123-180 grain however you see fit.
Whatever you do - If you want to reload for the two Russians, have the bores slugged by a gunsmith. It will tell you the exact bore diameter of the rifles. I wouldn't want to be the guy pulling the trigger on a .310" bored Mosin, with a .313" bullet in the throat.
WeedWacker
New member
So if I were to be practical have a set for the 7.62x54 and 39 with another for the 7.62x51 and 63.
45Marlin carbine
Moderator
I have had good results with the Speer 150gr .308 slug on paper so far. I don't have a chrono so can't say fps. I use 680 powder. this is at 100 yards. and my Ruger M30. it shoots about as good as I can hold it with my small glass.
azredhawk44
Moderator
So if I were to be practical have a set for the 7.62x54 and 39 with another for the 7.62x51 and 63.
If all you want to do is hear your gun go "BLAM!" and be happy about it... sure. Use a 125gr .308 spirepoint of some sort and have at it.
But... the roles these cartridges play, the rifles for which they are chambered, are so inherently different that it is ridiculous to expect them to all use the same bullets.
x39 = Ruski assault cartridge for SKS and AK47. Velocity ~2300fps @ 123gr.
x54R = Ruski battle cartridge for Mosin and Dragunov. Velocity ~2800fps @150gr.
x51 = NATO/US battle cartridge for FAL and M14. Velocity ~2700fps @ 150gr.
x63 = US battle cartridge for 1903 and M1 Garand. Velocity ~2700fps @ 174gr.
You can use the same bullets between .308 and .30-06 with similar results between 125 and 165 grains.
You will never get matching performance from the x39 since it is only 39mm deep and has such small case capacity... and the bore is a couple thousandths larger.
You can TRY .308 diameter bullets in an x54R, but chances are you will be let down. The pressure and case volume are similar enough for the same bullet weights though. The x54R will handle up to 180gr bullets pretty well, while most folks hold of the .308 around 168 or maybe 175gr for match-only bullets.
I've shot light bullets from an x54R. 100gr round-nose... training cartridges. They had a full powder charge behind them, but the bullet was really light.
They didn't strike anywhere near the "regular" hit zone of 150gr light ball or 180gr heavy ball. Way, way lower.
Just my opinion, but handloading is completely without merit if your product isn't accurate from your platform. Using the same bullet for all these calibers will result in inaccuracy.
Now... you can use the same PRIMERS and possibly even the same POWDER though. I'd suggest IMR4895 or H335 as two of many good candidates for bulk powder purchase for these four calibers.
So if I were to be practical have a set for the 7.62x54 and 39 with another for the 7.62x51 and 63.
You could use the same 308 bullet in your 308 win as your 30-06. Some thing between 150-180 gr. 165 would probably be your best bet.
The Russians will be a little trickier. If you try to use a 123-125gr bullet that your AK / SKS likes, your Nagant is probably going to over stabilize it. If you use a 150gr. in your 7.62x39mm, it's going to just about kill the ballistics. If the 7.62x39mm in question is a Mini-30 it has a 308 diameter bore instead of the 310-312 bore found on most guns in that caliber.
Sidetracked
New member
Red Eagle - Only pre-1993 Mini-30s have .308" bores. In 1993 Ruger began using .310" bores so the actions wouldn't take such a beating from .310" surplus ammo.
Only pre-1993 Mini-30s have .308" bores. In 1993 Ruger began using .310" bores so the actions wouldn't take such a beating from .310" surplus ammo.
Yes and No. The pre 93's have a .308 bore with a tapered throat, correct. The reason for the .308 was to use up the junk that Ruger had left over from their failed "XGI". When the junk XGI barrels were all gone they then switched to the proper .310-.311 bore. Had nothing to do with surplus ammo. As a matter of fact Ruger will void your warranty if you use surplus military ammo.
I buy allot of guns just to overload them.
I can't buy them all and test them, but I have tested CZ527 and SKS rifles and the 7.62x39mm case in large Boxer, Small Boxer, and Berdan.
It is all a poor choice for overloading compared to a 98 Mauser with the 1889 7.65x53mm type case head in large Boxer. That would include 22-250, 243, 6mm Rem, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 260 Rem, 6.5x55 [US brass], 270, 7mm-08, 7x57mm, 280, 308, 30-06, 8x57mm, 338F, 358, and 35W.
Don't mess with those poor rifles, unless you want to pay for lots of replacement parts, like I have.
I can't buy them all and test them, but I have tested CZ527 and SKS rifles and the 7.62x39mm case in large Boxer, Small Boxer, and Berdan.
It is all a poor choice for overloading compared to a 98 Mauser with the 1889 7.65x53mm type case head in large Boxer. That would include 22-250, 243, 6mm Rem, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 260 Rem, 6.5x55 [US brass], 270, 7mm-08, 7x57mm, 280, 308, 30-06, 8x57mm, 338F, 358, and 35W.
Don't mess with those poor rifles, unless you want to pay for lots of replacement parts, like I have.