649-1 +P rated?

[Departed402]

Pretty straight forward, but I can't find an answer online. Would a 649-1 be +P rated? I know the simple answer is, "Look on the barrel," but I've heard some Smith & Wesson revolvers were +P rated before they began marking the barrels as such.

 

[105kw]

As I understand it, Smith rated steel frame guns as usable with plus P , long before they marked their guns ".38 Special +P".

I would be comfortable with a K frame, but I have shoot a lot of +P through various J frames. I've never shot one loose, but I really limited round count.

There are a lot of regular pressure loads now for defense, so there are many more options then in the past.

 

[ThomasT]

This is the best answer to the +P question.

http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html

 

[David R]

If it has a dash in the model number, +P.

David

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[laytonj1]

If it has a dash in the model number, +P.

Uh, no. The 38 special version was at -4 when the factory rated it for +P.
That said, any 38 special steel framed J frame can fire +P with the understanding that it might/will accelerate wear.

Jim

 

[ThomasT]

If you read the link I posted above you will see that sometimes +P ammo reaches the power level of the original 38 Special load. But not always. +P is a gimmick to make up for how weak standard 38 Special is now loaded.

The original 38 Special was a real step up in power over the 38 Long Colt that gained so many complaints in the Philippine-American war. So the 38 Special was developed to replace a round that shot a 150gr lead bullet at 750fps from a 6" barrel to a round that shot a 158gr bullet 850-900fps.

The article mentioned the Sellier & Bellot 158gr round nose lead loads at around 950fps. And they will get it too and they are NOT rated as +P loads. I still have a couple of boxes left and its a powerful round compared to most "38 Special" factory loads I have shot.

So if your gun will handle REAL 38 Special loads it will handle the legendary +P ammo sold to consumers with no worries.

 

[Laz]

Sellier and Bellot lists the 158 grain 38 Special LRN at 997 fps but that is from a 7.50 inch test barrel, not the 4 inch test barrel used to get the “normal” 755 fps. I’m not saying it’s not a warmish load but it helps to compare things on an equal footing. If one assumed 50 fps per inch of test barrel, a wimpy 755 fps standard pressure 158 LRN might possibly reach as much as 930 fps from the same 7.50 inch barrel.

 

[ThomasT]

People like to refer to ballisticsbytheinch and so I looked them up. Unfortunately they only use lightweight bullets in their test but they never show anything like a 50fps loss per in of barrel. Or like the poster here named Kraigwy has stated several times the difference between the 6" and 4" barrels he has seen is about 50fps.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/38special.html

So I am curious. Did you actually read the link I posted above? If not I suggest you look it over.

 

[DPris]

You can fire +P through it.
Denis

 

[rodfac]

Call S&W, get the word from the horse's mouth!! Rod

 

[DPris]

If you do, understand that you may run the risk of the phone people giving you some nonsense about barrel stamping, and if they do, that's exactly what it'll be.
Denis

 

[1MoreFord]

I've got an ole buddy who has shot a bunch of +P out of an air weight J-Frame and it's still holding together. An all steel J-Frame is definitely capable of shooting +P.

 

[SaxonPig]

Mainstream +P is not loaded to excessive pressures and any modern (say after 1930) revolver in good condition should have no trouble with it. The +P is not even loaded to full potential. Standard pressure is now 16,500. Used to be 18,500 which is what +P generates. Old loads went as high as 21,500.

Below is my 1942 M&P. I fired 500 rounds of Remington +P (125 JHP at 925 FPS) and 600 rounds of my own +P+ (125 JHP at 1,150 FPS) to see if anything would happen. Nothing did.

 

[Laz]

Standard pressure is now 16,500. Used to be 18,500 which is what +P generates. Old loads went as high as 21,500.

I readily defer to your superior experience and knowledge but I sometimes don’t understand some numbers you cite, usually without reference, and, if memory serves, they have varied over the years in your posts. Since I have become interested in handguns over the past 25 plus years, the number I consistently found in any research has been 17,000 psi for .38 Special standard pressure and, for a long time, 18,500 psi for plus P. In recent years, the SAAMI standard for plus P has apparently been raised to 20,000 psi. When the 135 grain Speer short barrel load was introduced the spec paper on it claimed a Maximum Average Pressure of 21,500 psi. When I questioned Speer on that I was told that referred to. “Maximum Probable Lot Mean”, I think they called it and told me it was loaded to 20,000 psi. There remains a lot about handguns I don’t know but almost every time I read in forums about modern “wimpy” plus P loads the references usually lead back to your posts in the subject. It’s wonderful to be respected and quoted but I have a hard time confirming your claims independently. No offense intended. I’m just trying to continue to learn.

 

[DPris]

Denis

 

[amd6547]

I don’t shoot +P in my Model 38 (no dash), due to that model’s propensity to crack the frame at the bottom of the forcing cone.
Other than that, I’ve never encountered a factory +P load that I would be afraid to shoot in any steel frame S&W 38spl.