5 round Winchester trapper vs. 5 round Mini-14 for defense

[Dave3006]

I live in occupied Kalifornia. I have a friend that would like some advise on buying a defensive carbine. I am confident he can learn to use whatever I recommend. I will personally take him to practice.

My question is, due to the stupid magazine limitations in this state, would he be better off with a 5 round lever action or a 5 round Mini-14?

The lever action could be topped off easier. The 30/30 round hits hard. The Mini-14 could be reloaded from a dry condition faster and would be faster shot to shot. The reliability of the 5 round magazines is very high.

Which would you recommend?

P.S. Moving to a free state is not an option. Also, he does not want a shotgun even though it would be a better choice.

 

[HankB]

I wouldn't sneer at a .223 - especially with softpoint ammo - for defense. The possibility of overpenetration would be much less for a .223 than with a .30/30, too.

The limit is only FIVE rounds? I'm not familiar with Kali laws on rifle magazines, but I thought that magazines possessed before the ban were "grandfathered?" If that's not the case, things are worse in Kali than I'd heard.

(I've also heard a lot of people bought mags before they had a rifle to fit them - are you sure your buddy didn't do this?)

Your friend might want to consider a Mini-30, too.

 

[Art Eatman]

I guess my first step with a newbie would be to take him to a gun store so he could feel and fondle and thus compare. Aimed shots from either the lever action or the semi-auto can be made fast enough for practical self-defense use: IF there is practice at the hard parts--cycling the lever action, getting back on a target; and reloading either.

Generally, folks shoot better with whatever feels best to them.

Thinkin' about it a bit more, I'd guess the Mini might be a bit easier to learn. A newbie doesn't have to build up the reflex to work the lever. (There is always the issue of "spray and pray" with a self-loader, of course.) Certainly, .223 ammo for practice is a lot cheaper.

Art

 

[KilgorII]

A 16" trapper .44 magnum holds 10 rounds and produces as much energy as a 30-30, but with a bigger faster expanding bullet (except for hardcast and >240 grain ammo) for much better energy dump into the intruder.

Kilgor

 

[1goodshot]

I think ruger makes a 44 mag carbine that would work well to,also a 9mm and a 40 cal if I recall .Between the two I would go with the mini 14.

 

[ronin308]

What's wrong with the Marlin 1894P? If you have one you can let him shoot it and see what he thinks. The .30-30 might be a bad choice for a new guy (or old hands) because of overpenetration. Unless he lives in the sticks a .30-30 is a no no. Good luck on teaching him!

 

[KilgorII]

What's wrong with the Marlin 1894P?

Ronin308 brings up an excellent point, the Marlin short .44 mag is also an excellent choice.

Kilgor

 

[Bob G.]

I live in the scenic PRK too. I already made the choice your contemplating. I bought a mini-14, didn't shoot it, realized I just didn't care for it (although I love Ruger guns in general). So I found a used Winchester Trapper in 44 mag. It holds 10 rnds, I can shoot mags or specials. I put a decelorator butt pad on which helped with recoil on heavy loads, but more importantly lengthened the stock to just right for me. I also put a Lyman 66 peep sight on and sighted it in for 50 yds. Easily hits the small end of pop cans at that range.
For my money it is a better choice on many levels, but most importantly to you - it is more defensible in court if you have to shoot someone. If you use the mini, you will be labeled with the assault weapon thing and you how CA juries go.
Best thing is the trapper is a ton of fun!! I matched it up with my super blackhawk and have a ball at the range.
Whatever your choice, have fun.
Bob

 

[CWL]

How about an SKS? Still cheap and available in CA.

10-round fixed mag, easily reloaded w/stripper clips. Ammo is cheap and available.

Lots of aftermarket products still available, such as plastic stock, etc.

I feel that this is an economical first rifle, brush gun and even a starter deer rifle.

 

[Dave3006]

Thanks for the input to all. I agree an 1894P would be an excellent option. The reason why I limited it to the Winchester 94 Trapper was due to the fact that he could get a good deal on this particular gun used.

I also agree the best thing would be to get him out shooting with both weapons.

 

[Ewok_Guy]

Without a doubt, a Marlin .44 would be the perfect choice.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

actually, the california magazine ban limits capacity to 10 rounds, and high capacity magazines cannot be transferred in any way, shape or form to another person for any reason.

I think a 10 round mini-14 would be better than a trapper, since the sights are better.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

if you put some kind of reciever sight on the trapper, it's a push, though.

 

[ronin308]

Andrew has a good point. If one were to put the Ashley Outdoors ghost ring on a 1894P...they would have a real bad boy of a defensive carbine.

 

[HankB]

. . . high capacity magazines cannot be transferred in any way, shape or form to another person for any reason.

That's why, anticipating a ban, SO many people bought their standard capacity (>10 round) magazines LONG before they had firearms that would fit them.

 

[Ghengis]

I like the Trapper in .357 Mag. Hits hard enough (125 gr bullets at over 2000 fps), light recoil for fast follow up shots even with full power 158 gr bullets, short overall length (34"), 9 + 1 capacity, PC looks for a PC state, good match for a .357 or .38 revolver, ammo is easy to find and relatively inexpensive, feeds everything from .38 wadcutters to 180 gr bullets, reasonable sights as issued but it's easy to add a ghost ring or forward mounted scope rail if desired. An 1894P in .357 would be just as nice and you can add sights more easily. However, I believe you give up a round of capacity and I have been told that they don't feed .38's as well.

 

[Onslaught]

To add to the accessories list...

Ashley Outdoors also makes a "Scout Mount" for the Marlin that works with the peep sight, and your buddy could mount a Dot sight over the barrel for even faster target acquisition...

I'm amazed that I just voted for a lever action over a semi...

 

[Legionnaire]

Another vote for the Marlin/Winchester in either .357 or .44 Mag (my preference for the latter). AND I get to pull out an old "Photoshop Special!"

 

[KilgorII]

An 1894P in .357 would be just as nice and you can add sights more easily.

There is no difference in difficulty of changing sights on the 1894 models.

However, I believe you give up a round of capacity and I have been told that they don't feed .38's as well.

The Marlin 1894P (16.25" .44 magnum) and the Marlin 1894CP (16.25" .357 magnum) both hold 8 + 1.

The Winchester Trappers (16" barrels) both hold 9 + 1.

Also my Marlin 1894CP shoots .38 special with absolutely no problem.

Any of the short Winchesters or Marlins in .357 and .44 will be great.

Kilgor

 

[Ghengis]

KilgorII, my reference to ease of sight addition is a comparison with the Marlins vs Winchesters not the Marlin 1894 vs 1894P or CP. Not all the Winchesters are angle eject and pre drilled and tapped and hence my reference but I agree that all the shorties are great guns and if I didn't already own a 94 Trapper I'd look strongly at the 1894 CP.