Friends, Hope many of you can respond. I can't remember exactly, thinking the Mil round bullet was set out to contact the rifling and commercial 223 would have to jump to the rifling? Or vice versus? Under the impression that the Mil chamber would be different, perhaps longer than commercial. I realize that they both head space on the bullets shoulders, so that isn't the issue. Is there any overall length difference between M193 and M855 and or commercial 223 ammo? Or is there just a difference in the length of the chamber to the rifling? I have heard that some bench rest shooters feel some jumping to the rifling is not that bad a deal anymore? Lot of people that are selling the AR's are not aware of these differences, and there maybe not be the difference their once was? I never can find the right articles when I need them, cuz, I like the same things that Harley Nolden does. Thank You Jim,
5.56mm vs 223 chambering
- Thread starter JimmyN
- Start date
.223 Rem VS 5.56mm
http://www.winchester.com/news/newsview.aspx?storyid=11
UNSAFE ARMS AND AMMUNITION COMBINATIONS
In Rifle Chambered For
223 Remington
Do Not Use These Cartridges
5.56mm Military
http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm
http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror_files/556cham.gif
http://www.winchester.com/news/newsview.aspx?storyid=11
UNSAFE ARMS AND AMMUNITION COMBINATIONS
In Rifle Chambered For
223 Remington
Do Not Use These Cartridges
5.56mm Military
http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm
http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror_files/556cham.gif
5.56mm vs 223
Thank You, NOYES ! Your reply and the sites were exactly what I was looking for to help a friend who has been getting poor advice. I am impressed with the help that is available here. Jim
To KRAIGWY, I am new to this site, evidently this issue has been beat to death before?? You being a former marksman I would welcome your insight. All bench rest boys don't always agree with how they handle the leade issue. Jim
Thank You, NOYES ! Your reply and the sites were exactly what I was looking for to help a friend who has been getting poor advice. I am impressed with the help that is available here. Jim
To KRAIGWY, I am new to this site, evidently this issue has been beat to death before?? You being a former marksman I would welcome your insight. All bench rest boys don't always agree with how they handle the leade issue. Jim
OK here is my insight. Look at Brownells web site at the chamber reamers and head space gages for 223 & 5.56. They are the same thing.
I carried a Rem 700 Varment in 223 from the late 70's until I retired in '94. I used M193 55 grn military ball. AT THE RECOMENDATIONS OF THE AMU Sniper School insturtors. Say what one wants, the US Army Marksmanship Unit knows Sniping and shooting, having set up the first sniper schools in SE Asia, and still win or place in the International Sniper Compititions in Benning every year.
I ran the orginal swat (CRT) rifle training for the Anchorage Police Department firnishing M193s for their 223 rifles. Most Match AR Service Rifles you see at high power matches today have tight 223 chambers (including my White Oak Upper) and they shoot the M855s just fine (Though heavier bullets do work better at long ranges).
What manufactor;s put out has to do with sales or liability, not what is factual. Some maufactors says its ok some dont.
I've been waiting for years for someone to post ligitment proof that 5.56 in a 223 damages rifles, I haven't seen it yet. But my 40 years of firearm instruction, Police and Mililtary added to my 30+ years shooting high power have shown me there is no danger shooting 5.56 in a 223 chamber.
The same goes for shooting 7.62 in a 308.
Seems at least weekly we go through this. The subject is much to do about nothing.
Pick ammo that shoots best in your gun, and go for it. A simple examination of the fired case should tell you if you have problems. Remember any gas gun is gonna stretch brass more then a bolt gun regardless whether its military 5.56 or civilian 223. Its the action of the semi auto, not the ammo.
I carried a Rem 700 Varment in 223 from the late 70's until I retired in '94. I used M193 55 grn military ball. AT THE RECOMENDATIONS OF THE AMU Sniper School insturtors. Say what one wants, the US Army Marksmanship Unit knows Sniping and shooting, having set up the first sniper schools in SE Asia, and still win or place in the International Sniper Compititions in Benning every year.
I ran the orginal swat (CRT) rifle training for the Anchorage Police Department firnishing M193s for their 223 rifles. Most Match AR Service Rifles you see at high power matches today have tight 223 chambers (including my White Oak Upper) and they shoot the M855s just fine (Though heavier bullets do work better at long ranges).
What manufactor;s put out has to do with sales or liability, not what is factual. Some maufactors says its ok some dont.
I've been waiting for years for someone to post ligitment proof that 5.56 in a 223 damages rifles, I haven't seen it yet. But my 40 years of firearm instruction, Police and Mililtary added to my 30+ years shooting high power have shown me there is no danger shooting 5.56 in a 223 chamber.
The same goes for shooting 7.62 in a 308.
Seems at least weekly we go through this. The subject is much to do about nothing.
Pick ammo that shoots best in your gun, and go for it. A simple examination of the fired case should tell you if you have problems. Remember any gas gun is gonna stretch brass more then a bolt gun regardless whether its military 5.56 or civilian 223. Its the action of the semi auto, not the ammo.
zebulonsmith
New member
kraigwy, I would like to personally thank you for providing that animation, which caused me to spray beer from my nose all over my monitor and keyboard.
Guinness does not do the sinuses well.
Guinness does not do the sinuses well.
sneaky pete
New member
To Jim N---
Sneaky Pete here: Scroll down to the same subject on date Feb 03 '09 and there is about 40somethings replys on it. My look on it is- it's a LAWYER thing. Myself and numerous others have fired countless hundreds of military "Issue"5.56 NATO rounds (as in from MY arms room--at the time I was 1st/sgt B-2-338 Armored Cav.) thru my civilian 1973 Colt SP-1 and I still have a couple of hundred rounds left that I'm now shooting thru a JP Enterprises 24" match upper and a DPMS National Match A-2 upper also with NO problems and I don't "Personally" know anyone that has had a prolem with shooting 5.56Nato thru a .223Rem chamber. THANX--SNEAKY
Sneaky Pete here: Scroll down to the same subject on date Feb 03 '09 and there is about 40somethings replys on it. My look on it is- it's a LAWYER thing. Myself and numerous others have fired countless hundreds of military "Issue"5.56 NATO rounds (as in from MY arms room--at the time I was 1st/sgt B-2-338 Armored Cav.) thru my civilian 1973 Colt SP-1 and I still have a couple of hundred rounds left that I'm now shooting thru a JP Enterprises 24" match upper and a DPMS National Match A-2 upper also with NO problems and I don't "Personally" know anyone that has had a prolem with shooting 5.56Nato thru a .223Rem chamber. THANX--SNEAKY
5.56 vs 223 Rem
Thank You Guys, Nnow head space is not the issue. Certainly know about the lawyers. Have known people that would spend hours setting out a bullet to the lands and taking it back, looking for best results. Do you have a opinion as to these cartriges? Will check out the previous discusion also. Jim
Thank You Guys, Nnow head space is not the issue. Certainly know about the lawyers. Have known people that would spend hours setting out a bullet to the lands and taking it back, looking for best results. Do you have a opinion as to these cartriges? Will check out the previous discusion also. Jim
sneaky pete
New member
To Jim H. My observations on 5.56NATO
Old Sneaky back: IMO these rounds( Mil-Spec and/or Mil Surp) are good for the following--Killing People and/or other Varmints/Game, plinking, "Casual" target shooting and any other NON-precision applications that you may be able to think of . The reason I used the NON-precision tag is that they don't have the Consistancy needed for Sub-1/2 MOA group shooting that win matches. When I ran them thru my Chronoraph on several occasions I found that the spreads over 10 shot strings was as much as 120 FPS and the SD were in the 35>40 range. With my hand-loads I run 9>15 FPS and an SD of 7>9. I don't buy Commercial ammo and a shooting buddy of mine gave me some Black Hills 52gr Match to test and my handloads were better. Hope this gives you some more info to consider??? THANX--SNEAKY
Old Sneaky back: IMO these rounds( Mil-Spec and/or Mil Surp) are good for the following--Killing People and/or other Varmints/Game, plinking, "Casual" target shooting and any other NON-precision applications that you may be able to think of . The reason I used the NON-precision tag is that they don't have the Consistancy needed for Sub-1/2 MOA group shooting that win matches. When I ran them thru my Chronoraph on several occasions I found that the spreads over 10 shot strings was as much as 120 FPS and the SD were in the 35>40 range. With my hand-loads I run 9>15 FPS and an SD of 7>9. I don't buy Commercial ammo and a shooting buddy of mine gave me some Black Hills 52gr Match to test and my handloads were better. Hope this gives you some more info to consider??? THANX--SNEAKY
armedtotheteeth
New member
5.56 vs 223 rem
Thank Sneaky Pete for the good info. I did find the other 40 odd former replies. Had quite a time finding them don't know how to search back very well, used you name finally to find them. I thank every one that sent all the material and opinions. Hope to look at them further. I know for sure there is a difference in the chambers. Also am sure about it being a liability thing and all. Jim
Thank Sneaky Pete for the good info. I did find the other 40 odd former replies. Had quite a time finding them don't know how to search back very well, used you name finally to find them. I thank every one that sent all the material and opinions. Hope to look at them further. I know for sure there is a difference in the chambers. Also am sure about it being a liability thing and all. Jim