455

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455

New member
I am having problems getting moderate loads for my unshaved 455 Webley and 455 Smith's. So far using 250 gn semi wade cutter flat top, flat bottom bullets I have 5 gn Unique, 6 gn Blue Dot, and 4.4 gn Herco, these are the powders I use. At the gun Smith the other day he showed me a 455 Webley that had blown up. The cylinder and upper ramp were blown apart. Made me a bit nervous. Can anyone in their experience verify if these are moderate loads ?
And as a side note I just received all the equipment to cast the 455 bullets, 265 gn HB RN. I have about 450-- 200 gn bullets I intend to melt down. I have found them to be very inaccurate. My question" can I melt them without wiping the lub away first ? The lub is a waxy orange coloured stuff. Will the lub just burn off or form part of the droth ? Appreciate your experience. 455 Don
 
R

Recycled bullet

New member
The lube will burn off. Be mindful with the hot lead if the fire burst into a bigger flame than you were expecting. Good luck with your more accurate new bullets.

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Z

zeke

New member
It might help if you identify what model of 455 Webley you are loading for as the earlier models were not intended for smokeless powder. The 265 gn rn originally used in the webley mark II loading has minimal bearing surface and hollow base and would be easier pressure wise. Imo, less of a problem with the S&W's in that caliber, as they are likely stronger and larger cylinder throats. Still knowing the models being used would be helpful. Personally, would not be using 255 gn fp's with smokeless powder in one of the earlier Webleys. Even before the Mark I's, there were models called the 455 Webley?
 
R

Recycled bullet

New member
Yes I have been burned. I ladle cast. My ladle was in the lead pot when it burst into flames and it startled me. Luckily only drops landed on my arm. The ladle holds 4 oz molten lead. The ladle poured out all over the ground instead of going into my shoe, which was nice. Also keep in mind that if you're using a propane or electric setup make sure that it's not possible for anybody or animal to trip over the propane feed hose or electricity cable.

I imagine what would happen if the pot got knocked over onto the floor and plan accordingly. Always have an escape route when you're working with dangerous things.

The reason I was doing this originally was the commercial lead cast bullets were of inferior quality. Poor fill outs. Inappropriate lube. Sized incorrectly. Generally poor quality castings. Cheap casting metal. Overpriced low quality product that I paid way too much for shipping.

The only way to get the highest quality of anything is to make it yourself. Good luck on your journey ask a lot of questions.

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4

44 AMP

Staff
The Webley Mk V and Mk VI were made for smokeless powder. ALL the earlier guns were not and its not a good idea to use smokeless in them.

They are large guns, but being top breaks, not particularly strong ones and weaker than solid frame S&Ws in the same calibers.

Standard .45 acp pressures are essentially proof loads for the .455 Webley, and considering the newest of them is over a century old now, one should stay well below that.

I have a Mk VI, 1917 dated, "barely shaved" it will fire .455 but not reliably and it works with .45ACP BRASS only with the thinnest of half moon clips. Will not work with .45 AR cases.

The only data I have for the .455 is a load in a 60yr old Cartridges of the World which shows 6gr Unique with the 265 bullet doing 700fps.

I would assume that as a max and would not use it, 5gr Unique sounds better and will put less stress on the old mechanism.

Webleys look cool and are well made, but the design just isn't strong enough for anything more than the original factory loading pressures.

The other thing about them is that one has no way to know what kind of stresses they were put through by some idiot of a previous owner.

When regular supplies of .455 ammo dried up, various distributors had them shaved to take .45ACP with clips and it was not a standardized thing, different guns can be found with different amounts of "shaving". And, many folks were ignorant of the fact that standard ACP ball is actually too hot. Some guns have held up, many have broken, some totally.

Load carefully, keep the pressure low (BP pressure or so) and find a bullet weight that shoots to the sights (Or as close as you can). I'm quite fond of mine, and know what it is, and what it isn't.

Sounds like you're on the right track. Let us know how things work out.

BE SAFE, and have fun!!
 
4

455

New member
Thank you , I should have gone to the Firing Line sooner, would have saved a 100 google searches. I just finished 50 rounds for the 455 VI. I used Hornady brass, 250 gn semi wad cutters, FB, RFT Bullets, 5 gn's Unique, good roll crimp in groove.
COAL Cartridge length 1.050"
Did another 50 rounds the same with 4.4 gn's Herco Powder. COAL 1.050"
The info that came with the dies says Min OAL 1.100" USING MAX LOADS, Never exceed for 250 gn bullets. Pressure potential !!! I don't believe Iam any where near max loads for these 2 powders. Any comment would be appreciated. A friend of mine blew his gun up using ACP loads in his Webley 455 VI. Hope to get a pic to pass along. Scary to look at. Thanks 455 Don
 
Z

zeke

New member
The only factory documentation i have for the Webley MK VI is from a 1996 Reloaders Guide For Alliant Smokeless Powder.

using 220 MK IV L and a 265 HB RNL. The case is unidentified, but guessing a MK 2 case which some call a long? The Guide has a col of 1.245 in for the 265 gn hblrn, and a Hornady factory cartridge measures 1.248. The Fiocchi rounds are very close in oal, and Fiocchi still makes factory rounds.

265 gn lrnhb, Mark II brass, CCI 300, 4.3 gns unique, 710 fps, 12,600 cup.

265 lrnhb, 4.9 gns herco, 735 fps, 12,700 cup

Given the apparent bullet style and col length of your loads, am guessing your pressure with the unique load will exceed what the Reloading guide loaded to. Another consideration is your bullet dia, length of interference fit and dia of the cylinder throats. My Mark I and Mark VI both have undersize .450 throats.
 
4

455

New member
Thank you Zeke, good info.

My dad used to tell me: "If you don't think you have time to do it right, where are you going to find the time to do it over " Don
 
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